Sorry Julian! Your comment wasn't visible to me until after I posted mine.
Not sure how much more will be done to the structures. I have some dwarven ones to do but I'm not terribly sure they will look right so they might take more than a few days to sort out.
Given that you can do both grim and bright depending on your colour palette, why not Dark and Light Style, or something indicating the opposites can be achieved.
...though I did have a huge amount of fun with a slightly over-exuberant volcano this afternoon.
I think if you do a search sometime for images of the 18 May 1980 eruption of Mount Saint Helens, you may find your volcano is closer to spot-on than over-exuberant.
I've been hesitant to say anything about this thread because I feel like I came to it a bit late, and it was maybe past time to mention my impressions. I'm quite a fan of what these days is called grimdark and which I associate more with early (and bleak) swords and sorcery type fiction. I wanted to mention two things, however, and I think you'll see why I've waited.
The first is that as a matter of personal taste I'm not a huge fan of the purplish bits (I think I'm meaning the mountain and moor backgrounds). I can see that lots of people like it, so I'm pretty sure this is my lack of knowledge about color rearing its porcine head again.
The second is a bit more philosophical. I can remember seeing an episode of Battlestar Galactica years ago that focused on the supposedly cursed planet Kobol. It's a lush planet, with tons of vegetation and very little markings of the passage of intelligent species. I remember that making it all the more creepy for me... the supposed cursed state being at complete odds with the beauty of the setting. Another great example is the film Thin Red Line, about Vietnam, which has all of this beautiful scenery and yet people are doing horrific things there and there's a monologue running throughout that comments on it. All of which is to say that for me its the contrast that makes things really dark. A personal aesthetic maybe.
Well, its late, I probably didn't explain that well. The work is beautiful, as always, Sue, and boy now I really do want elven houses that drift on top of the trees. Sorry to be late to the party, and so unhelpful.
@Wyvern - Thank you :) I did two volcanoes the end, and three versions of each one so you could have an active volcano setting without half the map being covered in ash clouds. Since this isn't going to be a huge set I think I might have overdone it at that.
Ok, I admit I have been fascinated by Etna just recently, and I've also been a long-term fan of Kilauea's current Helama'uma'u crater eruption at the summit. I check the webcams every evening when dawn breaks in Hawai'i and the lava glows red for real in the low light. Though recordings of the Fissure 8 eruption in 2018 (recently given it's official new name of "Ahu‘aila‘au") are more impressive than the current eruption.
@Autumn Getty - I come from a place where there are large tracts of lowland heath not far to the east (since we don't have any mountains in Dorset), so purple is very natural for me, but you can probably do different colours by leaving that fill out and adjusting the background colours to suit :) Colour theory is fascinating, but not entirely necessary for mapping ;) And never be afraid to say what you think, even if you didn't find a thread until late on. A conversation isn't complete if there is anyone who wants to speak but doesn't, and anyway... I find your contributions interesting. Having them gives the thread a more balanced feel - all views are welcome :)
@Loopysue Just to clarify, I was thinking of the images earlier on. These most recent ones (ie. the image in the comment before this one) I really like. I don't think I've ever seen the kind of heath you're describing. Sounds beautiful though.
@Loopysue You know that I am a big fan of all your art, all your ideas and creations. Therefore and because of me not being a real artist it is hard for me to question something you show here.
With that said I wonder if the almost photo realistic ash clouds of the very impressing volcanoes match the main part of the style which consists of a beautiful stylized environment. What I mean is that realistic clouds match the Spectrum Overland style more while here maybe a little more stylized clouds could match somewhat better? ☺️ But I may be totally wrong...
I love fantasy, especially old fantasy maps, fantasy characters, fantasy landscapes. Of course, I've watched certain movies hundreds of times, and played certain games, and I'm still playing.
But to design something yourself?
My friend is very active here. I am more of a silent observer and advisor. He plans, sketches and draws everything digitally. I can't do that at all. I'm more of the classic artist who always takes papers, pencils, brushes and paints and uses them to draw and paint old-fashioned fantasy maps, figures, landscapes. That's my job too, I'm a classic art teacher.
With these old-fashioned utensils I can work more creatively and even faster. Advantages and disadvantages. Many of you, digital professionals would say, like my friend, with digital editing you can change things more easily, e.g. move mountains, change colors, reduce / enlarge buildings etc. That's true.
When I draw a fantysy map, I make a lot of sketches, try different techniques, colors. Of course it takes time. Then I start with the right map. I really enjoy that to see how the map grows and grows. When I show my finished map to my friend, he is alwayssurprised, WOW. He admits that he could never create works of art like this. But he doesn't expect that, neither do I. The main thing is that he has fun doing what he is doing.
Now on the subject: I grew up in a volcanic country, in Iceland. I go there again and again to visit my family. When the earth (volcanoes) spits fire, lava gushes out of the earth - or clouds of ash shoot into the sky, hundreds to thousands of meters high. Ash clouds, streams of lava, explosions: Hardly any natural force is as violent as a volcanic eruption. Like 2010 eruptions of Eyjafjallajökull in my homeland.
Ash clouds cannot be compared to normal clouds. Every volcanic eruption with ash clouds is different. It is influenced by many factors: such as the shape and size of the volcano and crater, the pressure, the type of eruption. These are also related to how the eruption affects the formation of the volcano. Roughly speaking, the eruptions can be divided into calm lava flows and explosive eruptions.
I was just discussing this with my friend. The volcanic mountains on the map are very small. Behind the volcanic eruption the ash clouds, which seem quite dominant.
That sounds quite fascinating. I would love to read an introduction thread by you!
The last time I ever had the critique of an art tutor (about 35 years ago) I was told that my style wasn't fashionable, and that I wouldn't get onto a degree course. He was quite right as it turned out, so all I have to show for that time in my life is a Foundation Diploma in Fine Art. I do landscape paintings - or at least I used to in the old days. They just weren't abstract enough for contemporary taste and didn't sell as well as all those pink, orange, blue and viridian expressions I saw in the window.
So I took an office job and laid all those things to one side until very recently, when I became involved with fantasy mapping art. I've done the digital version of drawing my own maps from scratch, but only ever one map on real paper using real pencils. It turned into more of a landscape than a map. Well, that was no surprise given my background.
Things happened in my life at that point and I drew my horns in quite a bit. I also discovered at that time the great pleasure of producing assets for other people to use in their maps, and eventually became far more interested in doing that than in drawing maps for myself.
I wouldn't claim to know very much about fantasy mapping styles because there is just so much to consider beyond the drawing itself, but I have worked out that maps differ from paintings in that the elements are more symbolic than real at this scale. The example map represents 1000 x 800 miles, which means that the volcanoes are gigantic, and the mountains themselves are super massive beyond that. In a non-photorealistic style it is not the scale of the elements that is important as much as the clarity - the ease of identification of each thing. Hence everything is several hundred times bigger than it would be if it was drawn actual size, and each tree might represent a whole woodland.
However, and having explained my personal take on scale and symbolisation, I can see that the ash clouds may be too large relative to the rest of the volcano, and also that this slightly discomforting distortion isn't helped by them being less cartoony than the rest of the elements. I look at them again, now, and I can see something that is neither cartoon nor photorealistic but a rather distracting hybrid of the two things.
Thank you for helping me to work this out and get it straight in my head. I think I will probably reduce the size of the ash clouds a bit and make them more cartoony, but I will leave that until I have done a draft version of the full set so I can smooth out the bumps all in one go.
And also, thank you very much for the reference material. I have bookmarked those pages for personal interest, since I currently have something of a fascination with volcanoes :)
@Loopysue My untrained eye doesn't really see anything wrong with the ash cloud portrayal, except perhaps they're a little too light and my perhaps they should have an option for lightning bolts which often accompany the cloud.
If you really wanted to develop the volcano stuff more, you could always make an ash tile. That way, we can suround an area with volcanic ash. You could even make a ruin city that looks like it is being dug out from ash like Pompeii.
I'll see if I have time for that, Julian. Remember that this is just a relatively small style. The terrain colours include a dark brownish grey intended to fulfil that role, though I can see I need to adjust that colour just a little to match the volcanoes. As for the ruins - again, I will see how much time there is once I've done the Dwarven structures, the cliffs, mesas, crater and ship.
Well, aside from the colour, it doesn't really have anything in common with Viper's Bugloss (which is what we call that weed).
Heath is a mixture of Erica and Calluna species (heathers), Ulex (gorses) and lots of grasses and other plant species all mixed in together. Its a naturally evolved ecosystem that supports a large number of increasingly rare fauna in the British Isles, including the the Silver-Studded Blue...
...a butterfly that has Protected status here in the UK. 'Heath' is the lowland cousin of the Scottish moors. Much of Wimbledon Common once used to be a heathland.
It's not a sterile monoculture of a single invasive weed.
I'm also coming to this thread a bit late. I love the map by the way, and the two contrasts. Certainly the left side of the map has a darker feel. I'm also a big fan of grimdark games. Zweihander, Warhammer, Shadow Of The Demon Lord. Its Warhammer 40K that sums up grimdark for me "There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."
To me for a map to look grimdark it needs to look like its on old parchment. Perhaps it has burn holes in it obscuring some precious detail. Perhaps it has a blood splatter across it and its torn at the edges or has a puddle of melted candle wax on it. It could even have some ragged tears across it as if it had been slashed by some clawed animal.
A good naming convention is always good. Its nice to see 'wastes' and 'Badlands' and other such place name that suggest no hope.
I think I will be changing the name of this style since it seems to be a shame to lose what I have right now by trying to morph it into something it's not quite managing to be. The beauty of CC3 styles is, however, that you can personalise them by changing colours and effects or bringing other symbols into them, so you might be able to use it to make your own Grimdark style anyway.
Again, I'm loving everything in this style as is. I know it's better to offer more in-depth critique, but I really like the way it's looking right now, so, I can't play devil's advocate ?
If I see anything as it progresses that seems to jar or stick-out. I'll definitely draw your attention to it heh.
Shadowlands. Much of what you have shown is definitely NOT Brightlands. Alternatively, Borderlands - the style lends itself to less civilized area, IMO
Comments
Are any of the settlements going to have walls?
BTW love the treehouse idea
Thank you! :)
I think the elven houses are my favourite at the moment, though I did have a huge amount of fun with a slightly over-exuberant volcano this afternoon.
I quite like the idea of Brightlands.
Open to more suggestions...
Sorry Julian! Your comment wasn't visible to me until after I posted mine.
Not sure how much more will be done to the structures. I have some dwarven ones to do but I'm not terribly sure they will look right so they might take more than a few days to sort out.
We'll see how much time there is left for walls.
The orc structures look great too, and that volcano's virtually real. That's very much the classic fire-fountain!
Given that you can do both grim and bright depending on your colour palette, why not Dark and Light Style, or something indicating the opposites can be achieved.
Or some of the Hawaiian volcanoes, or those in Kamkatcha
I've been hesitant to say anything about this thread because I feel like I came to it a bit late, and it was maybe past time to mention my impressions. I'm quite a fan of what these days is called grimdark and which I associate more with early (and bleak) swords and sorcery type fiction. I wanted to mention two things, however, and I think you'll see why I've waited.
The first is that as a matter of personal taste I'm not a huge fan of the purplish bits (I think I'm meaning the mountain and moor backgrounds). I can see that lots of people like it, so I'm pretty sure this is my lack of knowledge about color rearing its porcine head again.
The second is a bit more philosophical. I can remember seeing an episode of Battlestar Galactica years ago that focused on the supposedly cursed planet Kobol. It's a lush planet, with tons of vegetation and very little markings of the passage of intelligent species. I remember that making it all the more creepy for me... the supposed cursed state being at complete odds with the beauty of the setting. Another great example is the film Thin Red Line, about Vietnam, which has all of this beautiful scenery and yet people are doing horrific things there and there's a monologue running throughout that comments on it. All of which is to say that for me its the contrast that makes things really dark. A personal aesthetic maybe.
Well, its late, I probably didn't explain that well. The work is beautiful, as always, Sue, and boy now I really do want elven houses that drift on top of the trees. Sorry to be late to the party, and so unhelpful.
@Wyvern - Thank you :) I did two volcanoes the end, and three versions of each one so you could have an active volcano setting without half the map being covered in ash clouds. Since this isn't going to be a huge set I think I might have overdone it at that.
@Quenten and @thehawk - Thank you :)
Ok, I admit I have been fascinated by Etna just recently, and I've also been a long-term fan of Kilauea's current Helama'uma'u crater eruption at the summit. I check the webcams every evening when dawn breaks in Hawai'i and the lava glows red for real in the low light. Though recordings of the Fissure 8 eruption in 2018 (recently given it's official new name of "Ahu‘aila‘au") are more impressive than the current eruption.
@Autumn Getty - I come from a place where there are large tracts of lowland heath not far to the east (since we don't have any mountains in Dorset), so purple is very natural for me, but you can probably do different colours by leaving that fill out and adjusting the background colours to suit :) Colour theory is fascinating, but not entirely necessary for mapping ;) And never be afraid to say what you think, even if you didn't find a thread until late on. A conversation isn't complete if there is anyone who wants to speak but doesn't, and anyway... I find your contributions interesting. Having them gives the thread a more balanced feel - all views are welcome :)
@Loopysue Just to clarify, I was thinking of the images earlier on. These most recent ones (ie. the image in the comment before this one) I really like. I don't think I've ever seen the kind of heath you're describing. Sounds beautiful though.
@Loopysue You know that I am a big fan of all your art, all your ideas and creations. Therefore and because of me not being a real artist it is hard for me to question something you show here.
With that said I wonder if the almost photo realistic ash clouds of the very impressing volcanoes match the main part of the style which consists of a beautiful stylized environment. What I mean is that realistic clouds match the Spectrum Overland style more while here maybe a little more stylized clouds could match somewhat better? ☺️ But I may be totally wrong...
Greetings, André
Thank you, Autumn :)
Andre - Thank you very much! And you may be right about the ash clouds. I will have a think about it when I've done a few more symbols ;)
Hi,
I love fantasy, especially old fantasy maps, fantasy characters, fantasy landscapes. Of course, I've watched certain movies hundreds of times, and played certain games, and I'm still playing.
But to design something yourself?
My friend is very active here. I am more of a silent observer and advisor. He plans, sketches and draws everything digitally. I can't do that at all. I'm more of the classic artist who always takes papers, pencils, brushes and paints and uses them to draw and paint old-fashioned fantasy maps, figures, landscapes. That's my job too, I'm a classic art teacher.
With these old-fashioned utensils I can work more creatively and even faster. Advantages and disadvantages. Many of you, digital professionals would say, like my friend, with digital editing you can change things more easily, e.g. move mountains, change colors, reduce / enlarge buildings etc. That's true.
When I draw a fantysy map, I make a lot of sketches, try different techniques, colors. Of course it takes time. Then I start with the right map. I really enjoy that to see how the map grows and grows. When I show my finished map to my friend, he is alwayssurprised, WOW. He admits that he could never create works of art like this. But he doesn't expect that, neither do I. The main thing is that he has fun doing what he is doing.
Now on the subject: I grew up in a volcanic country, in Iceland. I go there again and again to visit my family. When the earth (volcanoes) spits fire, lava gushes out of the earth - or clouds of ash shoot into the sky, hundreds to thousands of meters high. Ash clouds, streams of lava, explosions: Hardly any natural force is as violent as a volcanic eruption. Like 2010 eruptions of Eyjafjallajökull in my homeland.
Ash clouds cannot be compared to normal clouds. Every volcanic eruption with ash clouds is different. It is influenced by many factors: such as the shape and size of the volcano and crater, the pressure, the type of eruption. These are also related to how the eruption affects the formation of the volcano. Roughly speaking, the eruptions can be divided into calm lava flows and explosive eruptions.
Here are some examples: https://cdn.britica.com/48/4948-050-8D32ACB9/types-eruptions.jpg and https://www.pmfias.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Eruptive-Volcanism-Types-Hawaiian-Icelandic-Plinian-Pelean-Strombolian-Vulcanian.jpeg
I was just discussing this with my friend. The volcanic mountains on the map are very small. Behind the volcanic eruption the ash clouds, which seem quite dominant.
What I would do: other "hot" volcanic mountains - like a fine smoke comes out a chimney - ash plume. The volcanic mountains with explosive eruptions: https://naturalhistory.si.edu/sites/default/files/styles/resource_side/public/media/image/arenal-volcano-olger-aragon-081029.jpg?itok=m4aVGZSN and https://www.istockphoto.com/de/fotos/volcano-eruption
Each of us should see things the way we want. My friend said I should draw a landscape map with volcanic mountains like this. Maybe.
Linn
Hello Linn :)
That sounds quite fascinating. I would love to read an introduction thread by you!
The last time I ever had the critique of an art tutor (about 35 years ago) I was told that my style wasn't fashionable, and that I wouldn't get onto a degree course. He was quite right as it turned out, so all I have to show for that time in my life is a Foundation Diploma in Fine Art. I do landscape paintings - or at least I used to in the old days. They just weren't abstract enough for contemporary taste and didn't sell as well as all those pink, orange, blue and viridian expressions I saw in the window.
So I took an office job and laid all those things to one side until very recently, when I became involved with fantasy mapping art. I've done the digital version of drawing my own maps from scratch, but only ever one map on real paper using real pencils. It turned into more of a landscape than a map. Well, that was no surprise given my background.
Things happened in my life at that point and I drew my horns in quite a bit. I also discovered at that time the great pleasure of producing assets for other people to use in their maps, and eventually became far more interested in doing that than in drawing maps for myself.
I wouldn't claim to know very much about fantasy mapping styles because there is just so much to consider beyond the drawing itself, but I have worked out that maps differ from paintings in that the elements are more symbolic than real at this scale. The example map represents 1000 x 800 miles, which means that the volcanoes are gigantic, and the mountains themselves are super massive beyond that. In a non-photorealistic style it is not the scale of the elements that is important as much as the clarity - the ease of identification of each thing. Hence everything is several hundred times bigger than it would be if it was drawn actual size, and each tree might represent a whole woodland.
However, and having explained my personal take on scale and symbolisation, I can see that the ash clouds may be too large relative to the rest of the volcano, and also that this slightly discomforting distortion isn't helped by them being less cartoony than the rest of the elements. I look at them again, now, and I can see something that is neither cartoon nor photorealistic but a rather distracting hybrid of the two things.
Thank you for helping me to work this out and get it straight in my head. I think I will probably reduce the size of the ash clouds a bit and make them more cartoony, but I will leave that until I have done a draft version of the full set so I can smooth out the bumps all in one go.
And also, thank you very much for the reference material. I have bookmarked those pages for personal interest, since I currently have something of a fascination with volcanoes :)
@Autumn Getty - the page header on this webpage is a beautiful picture of the heath for you :)
@Loopysue My untrained eye doesn't really see anything wrong with the ash cloud portrayal, except perhaps they're a little too light and my perhaps they should have an option for lightning bolts which often accompany the cloud.
If you really wanted to develop the volcano stuff more, you could always make an ash tile. That way, we can suround an area with volcanic ash. You could even make a ruin city that looks like it is being dug out from ash like Pompeii.
Thank you, Mike :) I do think they will look better after a little more tinkering though.
I'll see if I have time for that, Julian. Remember that this is just a relatively small style. The terrain colours include a dark brownish grey intended to fulfil that role, though I can see I need to adjust that colour just a little to match the volcanoes. As for the ruins - again, I will see how much time there is once I've done the Dwarven structures, the cliffs, mesas, crater and ship.
Wow, that is quite beautiful. Thanks for digging up the picture for me. There's certainly nothing like that around here (Great Lakes region, Canada).
The heath looks so like paddocks filled with the dreaded Paterson's Curse
Well, aside from the colour, it doesn't really have anything in common with Viper's Bugloss (which is what we call that weed).
Heath is a mixture of Erica and Calluna species (heathers), Ulex (gorses) and lots of grasses and other plant species all mixed in together. Its a naturally evolved ecosystem that supports a large number of increasingly rare fauna in the British Isles, including the the Silver-Studded Blue...
...a butterfly that has Protected status here in the UK. 'Heath' is the lowland cousin of the Scottish moors. Much of Wimbledon Common once used to be a heathland.
It's not a sterile monoculture of a single invasive weed.
So true, but couldn't resist - mainly for the outraged comments. You didn't quite make the outraged level. ?
Darn. I must have all growed up a bit too much.
I'm also coming to this thread a bit late. I love the map by the way, and the two contrasts. Certainly the left side of the map has a darker feel. I'm also a big fan of grimdark games. Zweihander, Warhammer, Shadow Of The Demon Lord. Its Warhammer 40K that sums up grimdark for me "There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods."
To me for a map to look grimdark it needs to look like its on old parchment. Perhaps it has burn holes in it obscuring some precious detail. Perhaps it has a blood splatter across it and its torn at the edges or has a puddle of melted candle wax on it. It could even have some ragged tears across it as if it had been slashed by some clawed animal.
A good naming convention is always good. Its nice to see 'wastes' and 'Badlands' and other such place name that suggest no hope.
Thank you, Winterblight :)
These are useful insights.
I think I will be changing the name of this style since it seems to be a shame to lose what I have right now by trying to morph it into something it's not quite managing to be. The beauty of CC3 styles is, however, that you can personalise them by changing colours and effects or bringing other symbols into them, so you might be able to use it to make your own Grimdark style anyway.
Again, I'm loving everything in this style as is. I know it's better to offer more in-depth critique, but I really like the way it's looking right now, so, I can't play devil's advocate ?
If I see anything as it progresses that seems to jar or stick-out. I'll definitely draw your attention to it heh.
can't wait to use this!
Cal
Thank you, Cal :)
Ok. The time has come to rename this style more appropriately. Has anyone got any ideas?
So far we have a couple - Brightlands from Wyvern stands out for me at the moment, but maybe you have an even better one?
List from here and the FB Group so far:
(The references to Allen resulted from a comment I made about Daniel being a bit boring, and how I wished I had my mother's maiden name - Allen ? )
Shadowlands. Much of what you have shown is definitely NOT Brightlands. Alternatively, Borderlands - the style lends itself to less civilized area, IMO
Edge of the Wild and Borderlands sound good and fitting. Although Daniel is strange and funny.