Annuals single issues?

Is there a way to buy single issues of the Cartographers Annual instead of just complete years?


  • Not that I am aware of.
  • That's what I was afraid of. I really don't want to drop 40 bucks for an entire year when I only want a couple issues out of that year.
  • ScottAScottA Traveler
    This question comes up from time to time and the answer is always no, annuals are sold only in yearly sets and cannot be purchased individually. I don't work for or speak for the company, but that's the standard answer.
  • That is a shame really. I would easy pay 6 or 7 bucks per issue. But not willing to spend 40 bucks for a year of issues when I only want one out of a particular year.
  • ScottAScottA Traveler
    Which certainly is your right, but you'd be surprised at how much valuable and useful stuff there is in the annuals. Even if you may not think you need or want a whole year, there usually turns out to be a lot of great stuff in each of them.
  • I can actually see both sides of this argument. For someone that has all of the programs, or even half of them (cc3+, cd3, dd3, FT3, etc) buying a year's worth of annuals would be worth it, because each year's subscription has something for each of the add on programs beyond cc3+.

    But for someone that JUST has the basic 3, it isn't worth it buy an annual that has maybe one or two add ons for cc3+ or dd3, and the majority is for Character Artist, or Cosmographer 3. Why would I want to spend money on an add on for something I don't have?

    But for someone like me, who has the basic 3, plus FT3, and Perspectives, and is planning on purchasing Character Artist and Cosmographer 3, buying the full annual is completely worth it. After all, I have almost half of the add on programs, and I'm eventually planning on getting them all. So I would use what I can now, and then install the rest when I get the programs they are for. Plus, with everything else, I think it would be a CONSIDERABLE headache to set things up so that you could purchase monthly issues of an annual. That's a headache the makers of Profantasy software doesn't need, especially when the value of the annual is so much more than what you actually pay for it.

    But it would be nice to be able to pick and choose... but there would have to be a 'downside' as well. For example... I could more easily afford to purchase 1 month out of an annual a week for say... $5.00 for each specific monthly issue. If I ended up purchasing all 12 months this way, it would come to $60.00, which is actually $20.00 more than if I just bought the annual. But if I can only afford $5.00 a week to do this, then I have to deal with knowing that in the end, I will pay more for whole annual. Even if I bought one or two monthly issues from an annual, then went back and bought the entire annual, I would have still payed more for it... but that would be my choice.
  • MonsenMonsen 🖼️ 45 images Cartographer Administrator
    edited June 2019
    Posted By: LadieStormBut for someone that JUST has the basic 3, it isn't worth it buy an annual that has maybe one or two add ons for cc3+ or dd3, and the majority is for Character Artist, or Cosmographer 3. Why would I want to spend money on an add on for something I don't have?
    The majority of annual issues don't require any add-ons though. For example, even the sci-fi themed annuals doesn't usually require cosmographer, which means that most of them are fully usable even if you only own CC3+ itself (The theme of the annual is another thing of course, if you don't see any use at all in sci-fi artwork, it won't help you that much if it works without cosmographer. Of course, the annuals are more than just their art assets, such as the techniques and skills they teach you, which can often be put to use in other contexts once learned). Also, overland mapping and general-purpose issues makes up the biggest chunk of the total.
  • the post above has it right. I often don't have or want to drop 40 bucks... its easier to say oh heres ten bucks. yes in the end I do end up paying more but being able to pick and choose would be worth that to me :)
    I actually do own year one. Unfortunately that was pre cosmographer haha.
  • LoopysueLoopysue 🖼️ 28 images Cartographer ProFantasy
    I can see your point, shado :)

    However, I can also very easily imagine that selling them individually would quickly become a logistic nightmare.

    For example, if a single issue cost 10 bucks, and the whole set of 12 cost 40 bucks, can you see how difficult it would be to sort out hundreds of completely different downloads (and people) who would argue that they've just bought the 4th issue from annual x so they don't see why they can't have the whole annual (meaning a totally unique download file of just the ones they haven't got would have to be assembled and delivered in moments, since I can already imagine that having to download the full annual when they already have 4 parts would annoy some of the more finickity ones)? And then there would be the people who would argue that they have these 4 already and therefore a right to the rest of the annual, but only wanted issues x y and z on top of that first 4 and didn't want to have to download any of the rest. And the people who would ask to exchange one issue for another. And the people who would want the price of the full annual reduced by the amount they have already spent on the 1, 2 or 3 issues they already have. And the people who would try to persuade PF that they had bought the wrong one by mistake and wanted to exchange it for another...

    A logistic nightmare.
  • Just to be clear, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. I was simply showing both sides of the argument for/against breaking up the annuals into monthly issues.

    And Remy, I do understand that there is more to each issue than just the 'add ons' for the specific programs :). I was merely stating that while there are valid reasons to not want/be able to purchase an entire annual, there are also valid reasons why Profantasy set up the annuals the way they did.
  • Josh.P.Josh.P. Traveler
    We've been having a similar discussion is the Facebook group.

    Persoanlly I'd love to see them offer individual releases for sale. The world has largely adopted the DLC model and micro transactions are popular and even expected. I wonder how many more people would jump into the annuals if they could do so without such an impact on their wallet. There's never been an annual that I've bought where I've wanted or even used after the fact, every single month. I love having it all but the fact of the matter is I don't need it all. I've got one annual left to purchase at this point and I've held off for over a year because there's only 1 or 2 months of stuff within that I want and it's not worth the cost to me. If those elements were available individually I would have picked them up the first time I saw them.

    I see this only as a positive idea.
  • Aren't there some free downloads of various issues ?
  • Josh.P.Josh.P. Traveler
    There is yes. I always recommend them to new users as a must obtain.
  • Logistically, providing the automated systems are set-up to work for both individual issue purchases, and as a complete year-long subscription set, there should be no real difficulty involved. The system that's been run by the OneBookShelf folks (DriveThru RPG, Wargame Vault, et al.) has been working this way for many years, for instance. In their terms, this would be the "Bundle". A Bundle consists of a series of individual items available for separate purchase, but the Bundle allows the set to be available for a reduced price too, with the reduced and full prices for each product also listed on the Bundle's page. The system is set-up such that if you've already purchased any of the items in the Bundle, you automatically get a reduction on the price of the Bundle, depending on what reduced price you won't now be paying for those items you already have.

    How practical this kind of system would be to set-up and implement for ProFantasy is of course another matter entirely. It's worth noting though that the current download model provides each individual Annual issue separately until after the end of the subscription year, when the whole Annual is collected into a single (and increasingly fearsomely-sized!) download. So it seems that part of this system may already exist, at least in embryonic form.

    From a purchaser's perspective, because a current subscriber gets a discount for next year's subscription when it's due for renewal, once you're a subscriber, that is worth persisting with, even though there's a slight gamble involved (because you never know quite what you'll be getting in the year ahead, as with any subscription). I know that before I became a subscriber, I too hesitated after buying a single Annual, for several years. Eventually, and thanks to one of PF's Black Friday promotion discounts, I plunged in and bought the complete set of back-issues (as even though I effectively "paid" for one Annual twice, I still got a really good deal for the entire collection at the time).

    It's fair to say I've used just a fraction of the content of that whole set, but it's been helpful in other ways - advising people about Annual content on this Forum, for instance - and when viewing other people's FCW files (such as those in the Community Atlas). And that is one of the key issues with providing separate single Annual issues, that you'd end up with the dreaded red Xs on CC3+ maps made using Annual issues you didn't have, and only substituted fonts for the more specialised ones provided among the Annuals. So long as appropriate caveats were noted in the publicity material for each issue, that needn't be an insurmountable problem, I'd imagine.
  • ScottAScottA Traveler
    A possible issue I see is that what of people who then decide that they only want or need certain annuals in a year which they have already bought, and then asking for refunds because they would have only bought x and y and not all 12?
  • LoopysueLoopysue 🖼️ 28 images Cartographer ProFantasy
    LOL! I can add that one to the list I started above.

    If this ever happens PF are going to have to be absolutely clear and ridged on the rules. That much is for sure!
  • True, but I go through them to learn new stuff. I have used several as a basis for my Atlas maps I submit.
  • Scott, the system couldn't be applied retroactively to earlier purchases, I think. It's a bit like someone complaining that they bought something at full price which a year or more later was offered cheaper. The purchase was made when it was, and the buyer was clearly aware of what they were purchasing at the time - and as I noted earlier, any subscription carries a degree of risk, because you don't know in advance exactly what content you'll be getting during the subscription's time, something which applies far beyond the PF Annuals, of course.

    Another aspect to this is that over the medium to long term, such individual purchase options would give a clearer idea of exactly what people were finding most useful from the Annuals, based on what was selling. Whether that would be helpful to PF, I can't say. I think here many of the regular visitors are already aware that some products receive a lot more support in the Annuals than others (CA has historically had virtually none, for instance), so that wouldn't necessarily improve the chances for that situation changing - though it might if an issue of CA extras sold hugely!
  • The simplest solution is just to switch it to a subscription model by month, with the annual rate costing 40 bucks. Which is a whole 3.33(and a tiny bit a month), so make is 5 bucks a month or Single issue and 40 for a year. or make it even 7 bucks a month if you want to give yearly subscribers a price break.
  • Wish They would come out with More Art packs...
  • Right..or just sell the art packs :)
  • Josh.P.Josh.P. Traveler
    With the rise of many other tools that are targeted at the 'easy' demographic, it would be a great business move to package up every single style into just the PNGs and market them for other tools. There's money to be made here and ProFantasy already have a significant bunch of assets.
  • To be honest, only reason I stuck with Campaign Cartographer for so long is the fact it is stand alone. I don't want Internet based anything.. If I can't use it Off Line I won't own it. My Problem with most art. Not matching....I try not to mix up styles. Photo realistic doesn't Match Schley and Schely doesn't Match Boggie's either. Been looking into getting some of Dave Hemenway packs off Roll20.

    CC3 has what 2 Statues in their Art packs?
    How Many Animals?
    Ever Program has it's flaws. Art is the Draw back I see.
  • edited June 2019
    I have never had to be online to use this software. There are a number of free resources just check up in the stickies at the top of these forums.
  • SkidAceSkidAce Traveler
    In the beginning, I feel that bundle subscriptions were the incentive for signing up yearly.

    Otherwise, people would wait until the end of the year, and pick and choose the individual issues they like, probably never totaling the yearly price. And not funding Profantasy at the level they expected for the work involved.

    Now? I kinda feel shado42 has the right idea, as long as things are priced so the yearly subscribers get a discount for the risk there are multiple items they are not interested in.
  • LoopysueLoopysue 🖼️ 28 images Cartographer ProFantasy
    I think you might all get a really nasty shock if the issues became available separately.

    The price of the issues that sell will have to be high enough to cover losses incurred on the rest.

    I can very easily imagine a situation where this magical 2 or 3 you all keep talking about would have to be priced as high as 15 bucks each to make enough money just to pay all the artists to keep it going.
  • at which case they would price themselves out of the ballgame.Its a balancing act for sure and most likely the reason it is the way it things are is simply because it is the most expedient and simple. I don't really expect it to change but I would like it if it did. :) as it is I will simply wait for a big sale. I cannot currently afford to drop 40 bucks on the one issue out of annual I want and gamble that something else might prove useful. Sucks but that's what I get for having Kids :)
  • LoopysueLoopysue 🖼️ 28 images Cartographer ProFantasy
    Big sales usually happen on Black Friday, and you might be lucky with the occasional promotion offer in the monthly newsletter. These offers happen quite often as well, though they are usually for specific items.

    If you are not already receiving the newsletter you can switch the option on in your user account.
  • Posted By: JimPI have never had to be online to use this software. There are a number of free resources just check up in the stickies at the top of these forums.
    I am talking about the Other programs to Make Maps.
    Ever Use Inkarnet offline?
    Also another Pet Peeve about VTT Mapers...Ya Gotta have a GM and a Player Version to Display a Map to Players.
    And VTT are Limited on Size and DPI on Digital.

    Yes a lot of Free Resources, but Useless if Not Installed in the Same Location on Computers. Ever Experienced Big Red X's in a Beautiful Map ya downloaded?
  • LoopysueLoopysue 🖼️ 28 images Cartographer ProFantasy
    Well if I ever make something beautiful enough that you want to use, John, I only use one third party package - Bogies Mapping Objects, and its installed by the regular installer, so it will be in the same place as yours if you have it :)

    The same is true of all the third party art packs available through the sticky thread at the top of the forum - they all have regular installers so that they all end up in the same place. I don't think they would have been allowed in the community Atlas if that wasn't the case. The only problems arise if you have a quirky user who decides to reorganise the folders (the wrong way of doing it) instead of making their own catalogue files (the right way to do it).
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