Little Tutorial on Subterranean Dungeons

I was working on a new map that depicts an underground dungeon. I wanted to achieve a similar effect to another map I had done (http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=3196&page=1#Item_9). It was getting terribly annoying to keep opening up the old map to see what setting I used so I decided to create a little reminder for myself. In the process I thought that maybe I would just create a little mini-tutorial on my method. I don't claim that this is a great method (or even a good one) but it works for me until I figure out a better way (or until I buy the Annual with the cave issue - which is gonna happen sooner rather than later). Its attached in PDF format...enjoy.

Comments

  • Thank you. Was wondering how you achieved that look.
    Going to try your tutorial one of theese days.
  • Have been working with this tutorial.
    Hasn't been easy :-)
    But I figured it out.
  • very cool...the multipoly stuff is the hardest for me to get through myself...so many spots that can mess you up, especially when you are working with irregular shapes.
  • Haven't tried a dungeon yet with the complexity you have done, but think i found a different way to do this.
    Though its more or less the same way you do it.
    Will explain later when i have more time.
  • 6 months later
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    edited March 2013
    Thanks a lot!

    First, the big picture: An underground complex with both a natural cave system and dwelling space. I understand that once a plan is modified in a graphic software, it cannot be brought back into CC2/CC2 Pro/CC3. Incidently, I prefer using CC2/CC2 Pro whenever I can, as the original plan was constructed in this medium. I want to use line drawing when I am able, since it goes with the plan - hence, I usually use the "hollow" fill setting when I am able.

    1. How simple must the plan be to be able to multipoly it? I would like to add a colored background to the plan, but the "hollow" fill setting and bleeding multipolies make that very difficult.

    2. Should all text and symbols be eliminated from the plan beforehand?
    3. Is the addition of a cave system a problem to this?

    I could use some guidance, if you have the time. Here is a copy of the plan that I earlier posted without internal walls, text, or symbols (and a .jpeg for good measure):

    Thanks heaps,

    Sorpaw
  • 1. If you have a hollow fill setting on your shapes - then in theory you could simply change the properties of your shapes from "hollow fill" to solid, change the color to white, and make sure that the outlined option is selected. This would essentially give you the same image...but then, you could create a new sheet (call it "background") that would go above your shapes in the sheet listing. You could then fill that background sheet with whatever color you want the background to be. And because this sheet is underneath your shapes the result would be a solid color beneath the white outline you want. That is the simplest fix but that assumes that you have solid polygons in your drawing and now just lines.

    2. If you have to do any multipolying - its easier to simply hide text and symbol sheets while your doing the editing - just so things don't get too confusing.

    3. If you were to try to mulitipoly this entire shape you have here, there are two problems I see right away. The first is that in the lower left corner, your circular shape is not connected to your square shape. You would need to connect those two otherwise, you will get bleeding. The second problem is that the cave shape in the top right would need to be connected to one of the other shapes (or both). After those two problems are fixed, you should be able to multipoly the entire thing and create one large weird shaped polygon. From there, you can follow the instructions for creating a background sheet as described in #1. *This assumes that there are no areas in your drawing where lines do not meet end to end exactly. Intersections in the lines are what causes bleeding. Figuring out where the lines are intersection can be difficult and time consuming - after you have to fix it once, you learn to start drawing them so all the lines meet up correctly the first time.

    So give it a shot and let me know how it turns out.
  • RalfRalf 🖼️ 16 images Mapmaker Administrator, ProFantasy
    I'll chime in with a little correction, which is probably not obvious to many: You can have unconnected parts in a multipoly. Effectively the cave in the upper right is not a problem, it can just be multipolied along with the rest.

    But as anomiecoalition says, gaps in the outline are a problem, as they will cause "bleeding.

    But the main problem in your map, as I check it, is that you have many double or even mutliple entities on top of each other. Try selecting the cave on the upper right, it's actually six entities on top of each other. You need to go through this map and use DELDUPS (delete duplicates) to remove all the double entities.
  • Posted By: RalfYou need to go through this map and use DELDUPS (delete duplicates) to remove all the double entities.
    That's a great command I probably should have known about much sooner! Thanks!

    Back to subterranean dungeons. :)
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    Thank you for the note about doubled/multiple entities and the DELDUPS function. How do you know when entities are doubled? Will this command remove ALL double entities (the cave, for example - will it go from 6 to 1?) Also, I must be doing something wrong - I want to move the symbols to one layer, and I cannot. They stay on the main (viewed) level. I just ended up deleting all of the symbols - what a waste of time placing them was. I even tried to "copy to layer" to get a copy there, and I there was no copy when I was done.

    Is there a way of "cookie cuttering" a plan, so that you have (Dungeon) on (Solid floor fill) on (Background) to get a floor inside walls, inside a different color background?

    Anomiecoalition, I think that I have fixed connection problems with the lower left round room and the upper right cave shape so that they are connected. Can I multipoly now? If you want, you can see the whole thing (what a headache!). If so, let me know.

    Thanks,

    Sorpaw
  • The "cookie-cutter" plan you describe can be accomplished by using the room tools in dungeon designer (I think) or at least the floor and wall drawing tools.

    If the connection problems are fixed then try multipolying...and yes, post a screenshot of success of failure.
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    I will post (wince) a copy of the result. Thanks for your continuing thoughts.

    Sorpaw
  • RalfRalf 🖼️ 16 images Mapmaker Administrator, ProFantasy
    edited March 2013
    Sorpaw, as I said, the central problem is that you have double entities on top of each other for most parts in that map. That will result in a broken (bleeding) multipoly.

    I've quickly gone through your map and used DELDUPS to delete all double entities, then mutlipolied the dungeon. The result is attached.

    P.S.: You can see that you have a double entity by selecting just one straight wall in the original map (e.g. with the Erase command). The command line in CC3 will show how many entities you have selected - if it's 2 instead of the expected 1, there is a duplicate.
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    This map was originally made in the late 70's, and I am modifying it for current use.
    I appreciate the looks that you have taken at the plan; I hope that you did not spend too much time playing with it (I have spent enough for everyone). I will have a look at the multipolied version of Ralf''s..I was taken aback at number of duplicate entities that there were. If two lines overlap, will a DELDUPS remove one of the lines or the intersection?

    Thanks,

    Sorpaw
  • RalfRalf 🖼️ 16 images Mapmaker Administrator, ProFantasy
    DELDUPS only removes an entity if it is exactly the same as another selected one. Basically you type DELDUPS, click one of the lines in the map (effectively selecting all duplicates) and Do It. No matter how many duplicated entities you select, only one remains.
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    Thank you, Ralf.

    Any thoughts as to how to detect overlapping lines?

    Thanks,

    Sorpaw
  • RalfRalf 🖼️ 16 images Mapmaker Administrator, ProFantasy
    Use any command that allows you to select stuff (Erase, Change Properties, etc.) and click a line to select it. Look at the command line to see how many entities you have selected. If the number jumps by more than 1, you have multiple entities on top of each other.
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    edited March 2013
    I think my further questions about TRACE can be answered in another forum.

    Thanks,

    Sorpaw
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