Why Layers and Sheets? Help with Layer Presentation Order pls

I am about at my wits end with this software!

Whats the point of Layers and Sheets? How do I change the layer order? I used to use CC2 a long time ago. I am trying to recreate one of my old maps, and here is what my problem is:

I recreated all the coastline and rivers. I placed in the towns. When I draw a forest, it is placed on top of the rivers and the towns. I played with the sheets order and got the rivers to place on top of the forest, but not the towns. Ive read the manual, but I might be reading the wrong part. I even bought the Tome of Ultimate Mapping, but I cant figure this out. Why is there a place for sheets and a "move up" "move down", but not for layers? Are the Layers always presented in a specific order?

I realize Sheets are primarily for effects, which I do not really want to use. How do I change the order that layers display? Can this be done?

Comments

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited April 2020
    Layers are just a logical grouping, it doesn't affect what is on top of what in the drawing, that is controlled through sheets and sheets only. (Well, you have the internal ordering of entities on the same sheet, you can use the send to back/bring to front buttons to reorder entities within the same sheet, but generally, for most cases of ordering, the entities should really be on different sheets instead)

    Layers are used for logical grouping, for example you can create a GM Only layer, and when you hide that layer, all entities on it are hidden (But you would still place those entities ont he relevant sheets to control appearance order in the drawing).

    And since layers doesn't affect ordering, reordering them isn't really a thing, which is why there aren't any move up/down buttons in the layers dialog. The layers dialog simply display them alphabetically.

    Sheets are used both for effects and ordering.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    edited April 2020
    All the symbols and polygons and all the effects... absolutely everything you can see in your drawing... ALL of it is on the sheets.

    There is nothing physically 'on' the layers, which is why their order is irrelevant and shown as alphabetical. Layers are like a way of grouping things for visibility and freezing, but lets get back to the sheets which are about ten times more important than the layers.

    If you want to move things up and down move the sheets up and down. Remember, though, that the sheets are listed in the order that they are drawn. So the BACKGROUND sheet is at the top of the list because it is the first thing drawn, and the FRAME and MAP BORDER sheets are at the bottom of the list because they are the last things drawn.

    I'm a little confused by your wish to place the rivers on top of the trees, but maybe you are using a forest fill rather than actual tree symbols? Would you be able to show us a screen shot of what you mean?

    EDIT: Oh I am SO slow these days! Ninjad by Remy again :D
  • Okay, Thanks for your help so far. Between the Tome of UM and you two, ive figured a few things out. The trees, cities, etc are all on the Symbols page. They are trees using the tool draw the outline and autofill with little trees, in My recreation, the easiest and most important thing to me was the settlements. so I placed them first, right after the rivers. Now when I draw forests, they appear on top of the cities. So I need to use the bring to front tool on my cities.

    What I want to do i create a sheet for lairs/ruins that I can hide while printing, and print on the DMs master map. how do i make the items i draw appear only on that sheet?
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    If your city symbol is on the same sheet as the forest, you should just be able to use Bring to Front image on it to bring it on top of the trees. Do note however that stacking the symbols on to pf each other like that might not look very good, I'll normally recommend drawing the forest around the city symbol instead, making a small clearing for it.

    As for putting things on a specific sheet, you can always use Change Properties image after placing them, and change their sheet.
    A bit more advanced is to take advantage of sheet naming. Most symbols goes to a sheet that starts with SYMBOLS, so if you make a sheet called SYMBOLS GM and make it the active sheet before placing symbols, they will go there. You'll have to remember to NOT have it the active sheet when you place normal symbols however.
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