After struggling with the PDFS, I finally did something.

caveCrawler · February 2020

After struggling with the PDFs, I paid Staples $25 to end my pain. It includes CC3+ Manual, DD3 Guide, and my CD3 guide. Clear plastic front and black vinyl back. Next up is my Tome and then all my MapGuides in one collection. It just works better to have a physical manual. I hope in the future ProFantasy offers this option as I would rather pay ProFantasy than Staples.

Loopysue · February 2020

I think the reason none of these publications are produced as hard copy (apart from the obvious green issue with the sheer number of trees that can be saved by having a paperless system) is because they go out of date rather quickly.

I would hate to have to pay for printing the 700+ pages of the Tome, only to have to do it all over again just a few months later.

Monsen · February 2020

Printed version can be nice, but with a low volume, it also gets expensive. I just checked Amazon's PrintOnDemand service, and for the Tome, the print fees alone would be $54 (color) + shipping.
B&W is more edible though, with a cost of about $10.
This is just the printing cost of course, and would be an addition to the actual purchase price of the tome.

The really bad things about print products are that they get outdated. I have updated both the manual and the Tome several times in the CC3+ life cycle to account for new features and changes in existing ones.

Posted By: caveCrawlerI would rather pay ProFantasy than Staples.

Keep in mind that if ProFantasy did sell physical manuals, the income from that would just go to cover the cost for printing them at some company, it's not like ProFantasy would really get that $25 anyway. And while printing might be somewhat cheaper, you would have to deal with shipping costs instead.

And while I do realize this isn't really a good option for everyone, investing in a secondary screen for your computer if you don't already have one is a great way of expanding your workspace, and give you room to have the PDF on one screen and the program on the other. In the PDF, you can search and zoom, both options unavailable in a dead tree format. I even bought a nice USB-C portable screen for my laptop. It really looks more like a tablet than a screen, and it don't require any extra power cables or anything, just a single USB-C connection to my laptop (Also comes with an USB-A adapter)

Note that these are just my own personal thoughts on the matter, none of the above reflects any plans, thought or policies at ProFantasy Software.

caveCrawler · February 2020

Posted By: MonsenPrinted version can be nice, but with a low volume, it also gets expensive. I just checked Amazon's PrintOnDemand service, and for the Tome, the print fees alone would be $54 (color) + shipping.
B&W is more edible though, with a cost of about $10.
This is just the printing cost of course, and would be an addition to the actual purchase price of the tome.

The really bad things about print products are that they get outdated. I have updated both the manual and the Tome several times in the CC3+ life cycle to account for new features and changes in existing ones.

Keep in mind that if ProFantasy did sell physical manuals, the income from that would just go to cover the cost for printing them at some company, it's not like ProFantasy would really get that $25 anyway. And while printing might be somewhat cheaper, you would have to deal with shipping costs instead.

And while I do realize this isn't really a good option for everyone, investing in a secondary screen for your computer if you don't already have one is a great way of expanding your workspace, and give you room to have the PDF on one screen and the program on the other. In the PDF, you can search and zoom, both options unavailable in a dead tree format. I even bought a nice USB-C portable screen for my laptop. It really looks more like a tablet than a screen, and it don't require any extra power cables or anything, just a single USB-C connection to my laptop (Also comes with an USB-A adapter)

Note that these are just my own personal thoughts on the matter, none of the above reflects any plans, thought or policies at ProFantasy Software.

Do we get e-mail updates when the Tome is updated? I don't believe I have ever re-downloaded the 2nd edition. I will definitely do that before printing. I realize there are advantages to the the PDF but I did not like being reliant on the PDF only. I love opening my spiral manual on the desk, looking at two pages at once, and jotting notes in the margins while I read, etc.

Does Amazon only offer Print on Demand for authors? Where exactly would I submit the Tome pdf to them for print on demand? Thanks. I would pay an extra $20 for the TUM PDF + Print version, if you ever consider doing it. $10 for Amazon, $10 for PF

caveCrawler · February 2020

Posted By: LoopysueI think the reason none of these publications are produced as hard copy (apart from the obvious green issue with the sheer number of trees that can be saved by having a paperless system) is because they go out of date rather quickly.

I would hate to have to pay for printing the 700+ pages of the Tome, only to have to do it all over again just a few months later.

the updates could be printed out separately.

Monsen · February 2020

Posted By: caveCrawlerDo we get e-mail updates when the Tome is updated?

It is usually announced via the newsletter, which you can subscribe to from your registered user page.

The 3+ Tome was originally released in April 2017, and the last update at the time of writing was April 2019.

The updated manual is always bundled with the CC3+ updates, so it isn't generally announced by itself (there isn't always a new manual though, been a few updates since the last update now)

Does Amazon only offer Print on Demand for authors?

I believe so. It is intended as a service for selling print on demand items in their store. I am not sure it would be appropriate for the tome, but I just picked somewhere I could easily find prices.

I would pay an extra $20 for the TUM PDF + Print version, if you ever consider doing it. $10 for Amazon, $10 for PF

More like $10 for amazon, and $15+ for shipping (Amazon wants $16 to ship the old CC2 version of the Tome to me, and that has a 25% smaller page count compared to the latest version)

caveCrawler · February 2020

Posted By: Monsen More like $10 for amazon, and $15+ for shipping (Amazon wants $16 to ship the old CC2 version of the Tome to me, and that has a 25% smaller page count compared to the latest version)

That is still cheaper than what I will have to pay Staples to do it. It's going to be $65 for 500 pages of the Tome (I removed the parts I do not use).

Monsen · February 2020

Ouch. That's expensive.

I am guessing ProFantasy gave up on physical distribution for a reason though.

They do read this forum, so I am sure they'll make a note of your request though, so I'll just leave it up to them what they think of it.

ScottA · February 2020

I am also in the hard-copy camp. I just can't work from PDFs, and end up printing out the pages I need, so an actual printed and bound book would be welcome. I think I looked into having the Tome printed but decided against it because of the cost and the fact that it is updated every few years.

Loopysue · February 2020

I don't think the updates are separate pages, by the way. I think it is just generally updated - as you might edit a novel, so it might not be possible to simply print the updated pages.

Wyvern · February 2020

Always puzzled me why ebook readers (like the Kindle or Nook) wouldn't let you view PDFs, accessing them from something like a memory stick or other external drive. Or at least they wouldn't when I last made enquiries some years back (at which point I lost all interest in such ebook readers permanently...).

Maidhc O Casain · February 2020

You can view PDF on Kindle but it's not a great experience. PDF doesn't allow for word flow, so Kindle interprets it as a pic. That means zooming and panning. Way better off using a laptop or desktop. I use a tablet computer in portrait mode for reading PDFs.

caveCrawler · March 2020

Posted By: Maidhc O CasainYou can view PDF on Kindle but it's not a great experience. PDF doesn't allow for word flow, so Kindle interprets it as a pic. That means zooming and panning. Way better off using a laptop or desktop. I use a tablet computer in portrait mode for reading PDFs.

I use the iPad mini and I have to zoom and pan the Tome almost as much as my Kindle. That's another reason I wanted a hardcopy. I imagine a 12 inch iPad Pro on a stand next to the computer monitor would be kind of awesome for viewing the Tome tho.

JimP · March 2020

I use SumatraPDF reader for pdfs on my computer. Uses the + and - keys to enlarge and shrink the text.

Loopysue · March 2020

I prefer looking at it on screen because you can't use the bookmarks and do searches for things in a paper copy.

caveCrawler · March 2020

Posted By: LoopysueI prefer looking at it on screen because you can't use the bookmarks and do searches for things in a paper copy.

yes the e-book has its advantages for sure.

roy.denton · March 2020

It’s one of the reasons I really like my iPad. I have my Kobo ebooks and all of my Profantasy and Harn PDFs on it. Easy to carry and access when I need them.

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After struggling with the PDFS, I finally did something.

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