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    • CommentAuthortreczoks
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2019
     
    From one discussion I learned that some time ago, a discussion was held about the future developments of CC - but not here. Instead, this discussion was done on Facebook. WHY? A discussion like that should definitely happen here, not on another platform. Especially not on something like Facebook in the first place.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2019 edited
     
    I think this is a symptom of the times we live in. Social media have become so popular that it is there you will find a lot of your customers, and unfortunately, they want to stay right there instead of engaging on the relevant web site.

    And as any company that wants to be successful, ProFantasy needs to engage with their customers where they are. And that means engaging with all available platforms, including both Facebook and their own forums. ProFantasy generally do this using a sometimes here, sometimes there stance.

    Personally, I am not very fond of FaceBook, but I can see why ProFantasy feels the need to keep a presence and engage on that platform too, there are a lot of people preferring to communicate using that platform.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2019
     
    I would have preferred to stay right here as well, but the group has over 2500 members - the vast majority of whom never seem to visit this forum unless directed to do so for information by people like me (who use both media) so they can benefit from the vast resources available here - not least all those wonderful blogs, threads, and comments that I collectively call 'Remy's Remedies' (though his is not the only work I refer to from the FB page). I've sent maybe 50 people here over the last couple of years to relevant threads that will help them with their mapping issues. Some people make an account and join in while they are here, some don't. The thing is that you can't force people to do what they don't want to do. Trying to make it so is just nuts. They either like this forum, or they don't.

    The way I see it nowadays having the two forums is like having a house with two rooms instead of just one, and I agree with Remy that PF would have been mad not to engage with the 'extended family' of users that seem to pool over on the FB Group page.

    This forum is where you will get your really tricky issues solved and get to talk to most of the real experts. The PF Group is where you can find out just how popular a new style might be and hold the most visible polls.
    • CommentAuthortreczoks
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    Posted By: MonsenThis forum is where you will get your really tricky issues solved and get to talk to most of the real experts.

    A good reason to stay here, and a good excuse not to join FB.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    I think that quote got a bit mixed up because it was me who said it, but yes, you could see it that way.

    Or you could see it the other way - that by joining both you get everything instead of just half.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    I still poke my nose in the forums here from time to time but honestly since the majority have moved on to spybook, I rarely bother anymore. I actually tried signing up for FB to access the PF material at one point and it wanted my cell phone number. Wouldn't take my land line number. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

    Here's the most recent article for my non-political reason for feeling the way I do.

    Facebook treated user data as a bargaining chip with external app developers

    Happy mapping to all!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    Hi Shessar! :D

    I was wondering where you had gotten to.

    I still check both forums throughout the day, but unless there is someone asking for help, showing a map, or I have something to ask or show for myself, I'm not really all that visible.

    I miss the way it used to be.

    Has anyone seen Dogtag lately?
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    Any chance of a summary of the FB findings as regards the development of CC either here or on the blog at some stage? Or was it simply the usual FB circular ramble to nowhere? I speak as someone who visits an occasional FB page only when there's absolutely no other alternative (a few small manufacturers seem to think it's a cheap alternative to a proper website for reasons that escape me).

    Sue, Dogtag last visited the Forum on Nov 2 this year.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    That particular thread is several miles down the page - a problem with FB. It had about 100 comments on it, and I can only remember about 5. I'm sure PF have a nice long list of wishes. There was a lot of pressure for a 64-bit version, and many things that made me chuckle or roll my eyes.

    It would probably take a couple of hours just to find it again.

    I miss Dogtag.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    Just read that article, Shessar. It's pretty despicable behaviour, and I can understand your views. I used to have them myself, but I eventually figured that I might be missing something.

    I think the reason I feel relatively safe is that I don't go anywhere else but the group and my own home page, and I don't have anything there (on FB) that is really all that personal. The only data they could have of mine is who my mapping friends are, because they are the only reason I'm there in the first place. I'm not talking about anything Earth-shatteringly important with any of them, unless a CC3 map will one day save the Earth, so there's no point in them even monitoring my private messages etc. If someone gets that task they've fallen out of favour with the boss and are doomed to spend many hours trying not to fall asleep reading my chit-chat.

    I also have a seriously retrograde phone that doesn't 'do' data at all. It doesn't take pictures, and you can't trace me by it. Its a 20 year old phone that does what it says on the can - it makes and receives phone calls and that's just about it. There's no personal data stored on it at all. The stated reason they want a phone number is to have a way to communicate with you if you lock yourself out of your FB account - access code texts and so on. I've used it myself when I changed computer and couldn't remember my password. Another reason they want quite a lot of detail about you is to try and reduce the number of multiple account holders - people who register as if they are many people to try and avoid detection for any number of dubious reasons.

    Anyway. It was nice to hear from you after so long away :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    Hi Gerri. You really should drop by more often, we miss you and your maps when you don't.

    Facebook is indeed quite scary. I was already well aware of the events the article referenced, and it certainly don't help FB endear itself to me. But that is what you get when you deal with a company whose primary business model is to sell personal data. I just wish the idea of giving away personal data for free wasn't so appealing to most people.

    Privacy issues asides, I just plain don't like how facebook works, making me really never want to visit the thing.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019 edited
     
    Hi Sue and Remy, it's so nice to see that you're still active here and still creating amazing art for us. Thanks for everything you do! :D

    Back when ProFantasy first moved from the Yahoo email group there were users that refused to make the transition from email to the forum. Now there are some who refuse to make the transition from the forum to facebook. People will do what they are comfortable with for their own personal reasons. ProFantasy, like any business, will go where the customers are, just as they should. This doesn't change my love for this company and doesn't change my intentions to buy everything that they put out. :)

    If facebook did not have the litany of privacy violations that it has had since its beginning, I wouldn't mind the transition. Of course, we all know that it tracks us even when we aren't registered users via the websites that have facebook links, so any sense of online privacy protection from facebook is hopeless. Still, my only means of protest is to refuse to give them any personal information and to bog down my browser with as many script blockers and privacy extensions that let me limit the facebook intrusions. But this isn't the proper venue for this topic so I'll leave it at that. If online privacy is an interest of yours I'd be glad to share links to advocacy groups who are challenging facebook and other violators via forum whispers.

    Take care and happy mapping to all!
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    Don't care much for FB, but there are relatives and others thats the only way I can reach them.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2019
     
    One advantage of this forum is that you can easily search for and find threads that are of interest to you. I book mark quite a few, and of course i can easily find my own posts (and others). Facebook just cannot do this - in fact the whole thread is higgedly piggedly. And not only is the advice far more expert, but also lightning quick.
    On the other hand, FB gets to many more people, and increases the interest being sustained in ProFantasy. It is also as friendly a forum as this is, but not with anywhere the same expertise (apart from Sue's comments). I wish more of them would visit this forum, but there it is. By having both, we get heaps more interest.
    Personally, I prefer the forum, but visit the FB page about 5xweek. here - multiple times a day.
    And I so wish Dogtag would enter the conversations more - a great sense of humour, wit and wisdom, and a great critique of maps - I know he has helped me in my mapping a lot. I miss him.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019 edited
     
    Well.....i was just thinking this same thing! Mostly about missing Dogtag, though. But, when the FB group started, i tried often to direct people here and was met with a lot of resistance, so i just gave up. I, too, prefer this forum and it's users, and usually stick to scanning these posts and replying once in a while. I haven't made many maps since finishing up Sanctuary, so i haven't really had much reason to post, and Sue pretty much takes care of giving help and advice on the FB forum (of which i couldn't really give anyway since it tend to use the program "rogue" style rather than being able to follow the tutorials).

    I've been a bit busy working on making handmade resin dice and getting a little etsy shop up and running. I'm hoping to incorporate some maps and dice into a "kit" of sorts for gamers eventually, but for now i'll settle with selling dice and/or maps on their own ;) Keep an eye out gamers....it's called Dice Hags (on all social media) and we are about to put up about 10 sets of dice for sale by the end of the year ;)

    @Dogtag.....where are you, old buddy????
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019
     
    Posted By: MonsenHi Gerri. You really should drop by more often, we miss you and your maps when you don't.


    Okay.

    Remy, your simple request made me realize how much I enjoy everyone here and how much I've missed seeing everyone's current project. I've always come because of my love of maps and stayed because of the kind and wonderful people. So, I'll ignore the fact that FB is getting most of the activity these days and just post with those who are still here.

    @Dogtag - Please come back, even if it just to say hello. You are missed.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019
     
    Yay! :D
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: Shessaryour simple request made me realize how much I enjoy everyone here and how much I've missed seeing everyone's current project. I've always come because of my love of maps and stayed because of the kind and wonderful people.
    This is why I miss you guys so much when you disappear or go quiet. There is a wonderful group of people here, and I hate whenever some of them get lost. I have quite a long list of people I really would have like to see come back or come more often.

    I always keep thinking of those people, and wonder where are they now, and what are they doing?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019 edited
     
    [a little OT, sorry]

    Hi folks,

    Thank you for the kind words. I'm genuinely touched. I miss you all, too. I'm sorry I've been absent/silent for such a long time. I was unexpectedly slammed with one personal challenge or tragedy after another for the last year, and especially the last few months, and I haven't made the time I should for pleasant pursuits. I'm hoping to rejoin you all here on this forum soon.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019
     
    Yes!

    Wooot!

    Hellooooooo :D

    I hope you start having a better time soon :)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019
     
    Yeehaaa ! Its Dogtag !
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019
     
    This forum always felt like a family, and I still prefer it to that other site. I've also been fairly quiet, but a big RPG project has kept me busy for the past 12 months. Now that it's done I hope to get back to mapping...
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019
     
    Baron Doggetage returns - Welcome back to our forums, Dogtag, we all are so glad to hear from you again. No more lurking! <3
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2019
     
    Dogtag, I'm glad that you stopped by and hope that things improve for you. I wish you the best.

    It's good to see you here too Scott and Lorelei. This feels like old times. :)
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2019 edited
     
    Good to see all of you again. I mostly lurk these days as my job doesn't allow much time for anything else.

    @Shessar. Facebooks best kept open secret is that it is a continuation of a program the CIA started called " Lifelog". The existence of lifelogs closing was reported in an online tech website. The exact same day lifelong was shut down, facebook started. And many of the CIA employees who worked on lifelog were subsequently hired by facebook.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2019 edited
     
    Hi Tonnichiwa! :D

    Let's face it, if a government agency wants to know stuff it will find a way anyway. If you shut FB down it would just find something else - your mobile apps for instance. That's why I keep an antique phone that doesn't have any of that stuff.

    We are all possessions of our respective governments the day we are born anyway. That's why we have birth certificates and tax numbers - like ear tags in cattle.

    The only thing you can do in life to feel less like an object is to ignore it and just get on with living.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2019
     
    Moo.

    Hi Tony - seems all the old characters are out to play - so great to hear from you all.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: ShessarDogtag, I'm glad that you stopped by and hope that things improve for you. I wish you the best.

    It's good to see you here too Scott and Lorelei. This feels like old times. :)


    I was thinking the same thing! I miss this group of good folks who contribute back to this community. I guess, i mostly dislike FB because people just come to take advice or maps and so few seem to give back (ahem...the atlas). I like it here better.

    @Dogtag...so glad to hear from you! Hope things start getting better for you....and we see more of you on the forums. Your advice was paramount to my learning experience with this program!!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMedio
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2019
     
    Even if i have no time to mapping lately, still keep reading these forums most days, and plan to keep on doing it.

    Not too fond of FB aswell.

    And oh, Dogtag, you have been missed! Cheers and welcome back!
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2019
     
    @Dogtag - hope your issues get successfully resolved and put behind you!

    I personally find Facebook to be a very disingenuous place - people behave more like peacocks there and not themselves at all. Any serious discussion is heavily moderated or censored to suit the platform’s owners and renders the service neuter.

    Did I see mention of a 64-bit version of CC3+? I am interested in knowing more about that...
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2019
     
    Luckily, the 'usual' egotistical FB behaviour is not present on the CC3 FB page.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2019
     
    I think it also depends a lot on who you pick as friends. My own news feed is ok. It's when I venture onto sites other than my own page and the Group - which is why I don't bother with anything else.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2019
     
    Posted By: QuentenLuckily, the 'usual' egotistical FB behaviour is not present on the CC3 FB page.


    I agree the FB CC3+ board is one of the more helpful ones there.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2019
     
    Greetings Barliman - long time, no hear. How's mapping going?
  1.  
    I'm not, in general, a FB user. I have maybe 7 friends, and belong to the CC3+ group. I spend much more time reading here on the forums. That said, I've gotten some really excellent instruction and ideas over on the FB CC3+ group as well...
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2019
     
    Heyo Barliman !
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: QuentenGreetings Barliman - long time, no hear. How's mapping going?


    "Mapping?" What is that? ;-)

    Seriously, been much too busy to really work with CC3+. Retirement's coming in a few months, so I finally hope to have enough time to really dive into mapping again. :)
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: JimPHeyo Barliman !


    Yo! :)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2019
     
    Just don't let your family plan your retirement time. Its gotten better since my brother-in-law retired, but its not lots of free time for me. Well, according to my sister I have plenty of free time. Oh, okay.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: JimPJust don't let your family plan your retirement time. Its gotten better since my brother-in-law retired, but its not lots of free time for me. Well, according to my sister I have plenty of free time. Oh, okay.


    Noted. :D
    • CommentAuthorSkidAce
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: Barliman
    Posted By: QuentenGreetings Barliman - long time, no hear. How's mapping going?


    "Mapping?" What is that? ;-)

    Seriously, been much too busy to really work with CC3+. Retirement's coming in a few months, so I finally hope to have enough time to really dive into mapping again. :)


    Its a trap...beware of others planning your time, as advised above.


    (its actually cool, grandkids are fun in limited doses)
  2.  
    Posted By: treczoksFrom one discussion I learned that some time ago, a discussion was held about the future developments of CC - but not here. Instead, this discussion was done on Facebook. WHY? A discussion like that should definitely happen here, not on another platform. Especially not on something like Facebook in the first place.


    We will solicit here for views, too. This forum is very important to us and the community. We can't promise identical comments on both platforms.