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    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019 edited
     
    This is a thread that contains all the work done on developing a style similar to the Atlas Ferraris style in the thread of that name.

    This is the state of play with the first 4 textures - the paper and three of the more common field types.

    colour match.jpg

    It is difficult to see the exact nature of the painted lines on the extract of the original in the middle, but the original image has been reproduced several times over and is also fairly pixelated - therefore blurred. That is why I haven't bothered to further blur the new textures.

    Before I go any further I want to be absolutely sure that I am not about to breach any copyright on this style by copying it. I'm not sure who the owners of a 300 year old map would be.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Who owns a 300 year old map doesn't matter, there is no copyright. Anybody who claims otherwise is selling snake oil. It is as thoroughly in the public domain as it's possible to be.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Well, until someone jumps in and starts making accusations and bashing me over the head, I will continue for now ;)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    I expect I will find out quite quickly now. I've just loaded the same image to the FB Group page.
  1.  
    Sue,

    Those look great!
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    I think if they were faded a bit, or looked more watercolorish you'd be onto something for sure.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2019
     
    Thank you, khornishman and Scott :)

    I agree, there is more work to be done, but I would like to get a rough draft of the full set before going back to them right now.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    Just a general question.

    I'm used to working in feet and miles, but this one seems to be best at metric city scale.

    How many pixels per map unit for symbols and fills at city metric scale? Is it 40, or something else?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    Yea, it is 40.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    Thanks Remy :)

    And 1 map unit is 1 metre?

    Sorry I forgot to ask!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    Depend if you make metric or imperial maps. For metric maps, yes, but in general, resources are made for imperial maps, and then rescaled on the metric templates, so for a city map, use 1 foot as a map unit.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    So if I make a city in metrics (which I do unless doing it for citizens of those poor benighted lands that stubbornly stick to an outdated imperial 'system' - even the name is outdated) will the unit be 1 metre, or 1 foot?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    Thanks again, Remy :)

    I now have to sort out the fills so they don't look like a mass of redundancies at the imperial scale.

    Quenten - imperial measurement systems are part of RPG, not countries. Our system, thanks to the EU, is a total mess now that its half imperial, half metric. That makes no sense at all.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    @Quenten: Yes, if you start a metric city map, map units are 1 meter each.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    A bit later than expected, but only by a few hours. This is the draft example map I am working on. The way I'm doing this is to copy an existing extract to make sure I get it as close as possible to the original. There are no bushes, trees or meadow/field fills yet, but see what you think about what's already there :)

    First is the extract I chose from one that Khornishman showed on his request thread

    St Denis.png

    And this is the copy with elements of the style under development so far

    Annual Ferraris Style.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    I am thinking that the meadow symbols seem to neatly fit in the field everywhere they appear, with none cut off midway, so these might have to be symbols instead of fills. That is why the meadows are only green right now.
  2.  
    I amazed at your ability. I really struggle in my maps to do the simplest things, but as Clausewitz said, "Everything in war is very simple. But the simplest thing is difficult." Since I use my maps in wargames, the quote seems appropriate.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    Thank you, Mike. All I am doing here is mimicking someone else's great work of art. If this was a classic painting I'd be doing a pretty poor job of counterfeiting.

    I'm not really doing anything special except using my colour eye to get a good match. Most of the job has already been done by whoever actually designed the Ferraris style. I doubt that was the count himself. He would have employed a whole army of cartographers to get this done. The entire map is simply vast, and something that no one man could have accomplished in a lifetime back then. There's a zoomy version of it here:

    Belgian Ferraris map

    And your war quote is more appropriate than you think, Mike. The Ferraris map was used by Napoleon.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Looking great! :D
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Thank you! :D
  3.  
    Sue,

    It looks very good.

    If the meadows are symbols, that's quite a lot of variety or just the opposite. I'd think that the placement of hedge symbols, or perhaps as a line of hedges being drawn much like roads, could be used to outline any fills that might look "off" from being cut at the edges.

    But, that is only my thought on the matter.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    Thank you :)

    Maybe, but you will get both anyway. I have to hand draw the patterns as separate entities from the fills, so I can make a meadow fill with the drawings added to it, and also provide the separate drawings as tiny symbols.

    The hedges I think I may already have solved, though these are still only draft bushes. I need to make them a bit more messy (I think) and I have a bit of an issue to sort out with those strange shadows that don't seem to follow any lighting rules.
      bushes.png
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    There are lots of details that need to be sorted out - varying degrees of blur, and things not looking quite right just yet.
  4.  
    Sue,

    Don't sell yourself short, this is a very well done sample of a style that many wargamers, such as myself, have dreamed about using/seeing for our hobby.

    In fact, you've inspired me to go back to my gaming blog, which I've not posted to in a while, and re-engage with it, knowing that I'll be able to eventually create my own maps to showcase there.

    I look forward to buying the annual this presents in, that is for darn sure.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Oh thank you!

    It's only half baked at the moment, and I noticed after I posted that last shot that the bushes in the bottom part of the map are actually upside-down. Those are the ones that look top-heavy and appear to be lit from below. I must have hit SHIFT when I was pasting them and accidentally rotated them by 180 degrees, then carried on pasting without realising I'd done it.

    The Ferraris style is currently set to be published in February next year as long as I don't hit any really big problems on the way. That will be the 2020 annual - issue number CA158.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    I was pretty likely to buy next year's annual anyway, but now it's a dead certainty.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Thank you! :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    I think I might have got the bushes more or less right - ish.

    Annual Ferraris Style2.JPG

    Its pretty hard to tell without seeing how crisp or smudged they are on the original map.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalf
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    It looks great!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Thank you! :D
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Sue, are the darker areas contours?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Yes. I've seen several places in the zoomy map where there are multiple levels of them. These aren't steep slopes. If you look at St Denis (near Mons) on Google Earth you can see its actually relatively flat. These rather eccentric contours that seem like cliffs to our modern eyes were the height of cartographic fashion in Napoleon's day. Thin and barely noticeable lines are their modern descendant.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Here is a view from the indicated ford/bridge back into the village. You can see that the village is on a low hill, but the slope is pretty shallow.
      Annual Ferraris Style view.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    So dark is lower
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Which I should have realized, since that is where the rivers are - duh
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Yes, that's right :)

    But it's not the whole area that's dark. The colour fades out down the slope.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    While I was looking at Google Maps I could see that most of the original buildings have been replaced by more modern houses, but the church is still there, and there's still a graveyard immediately around it. Ironically, the fields in the foreground are still pasture, and the ones on the other side of the road are still arable. Strange that the land should stay so unchanged over the last 250 years, when the buildings are mostly new.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    There is something lovely about using street view on an old map like that.

    Wish we had original street view imagery from back then (and for all old maps), that would have provided an incredible insight.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    The Ferraris map is astonishingly accurate. It's quite easy to identify everything. The cartographers who drew the map were artists, but their surveyors, who were working without the benefit of satellite imagery and many of the modern surveyor's gadgets, must have been pure geniuses.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Yea, this is why maps is so much more impressive than almost any other kind of art, the work that lies beyond it. Even though not all maps are at that level of accuracy, far from it, when considering the tools of the era, most maps are really impressive.

    It is a sharp contrast to todays tools. I see our students outside the building every now and then with all their modern surveying gear, those things contain tools the ancient surveyors (which is about everyone more than a century in the past in this case) would gladly sacrifice their firstborn over.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    The reason we have no aerial view then is because only angels could fly, but they didn't have mobile phones to record what they saw
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    LOL!

    Angels... or witches!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    And now I have this absurd image in my head of Granny Weatherwax flying along on her non-starting broomstick, taking a selfie against the backdrop of the landscape.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    I thought that was historical fact, attested by St Terrence Pratchett
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    But of course!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    What is a Laagoven (Dutch), or Bas fourneau (French)?

    I get 'low oven' or 'basement'. The mark on the map is a very small triangle.

    I'm trying to translate the key.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Its ok. I've figured it out from the pictures, even though I can't read a word of Dutch or French. Its a primitive smelting furnace. So I will call it a "Smelting site"
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    New question:

    What is the difference between "Forest with scrub", and "High forest"?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    A High Forest is a forest with tall trees with a closed canopy which limits the forest floors exposure of sunlight, leading to limited growth down there.

    I expect the other kind is a more open-canopy variant which allows for much more greenery an shrubs to grow at the forest floor.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    Thanks Remy :)

    So the forest with scrub is more patchy with an incomplete canopy where shrubs grow in the spaces?

    I'm just asking out of curiosity now. I think I lack the full understanding because I've never actually walked through a patch of high forest (not counting conifer plantations in Scotland). I think it is one thing that the UK is a little short of. Even the New Forest area in Hampshire (the closest official forest to where I live) is only forest with scrub by that definition.

    EDIT: and you edited your answer to answer this question anyway - while I was asking it :)