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    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    Can anyone tell me what kind of specs I should be looking for in a new PC for optimum graphic performance - not just in CC3+/CC4 (when it arrives), but with ordinary graphics apps as well? I use GIMP and Krita, and 3D apps Sketchup and Blender to make new symbols.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    As much RAM as you can afford.

    The most powerful processor (with the most number of cores) that you can afford.

    The biggest hard drive available.

    In that order, IMO, though others may disagree. With the Sketchup stuff, a more powerful processor might be more important (assuming it uses multiple cores properly).

    I'm currently holding out on upgrading my home PC for memory prices to come back down a bit more so that I can afford 64 GB of RAM to go with the four or six core Xeon processor. I would consider 3 TB the minimum size for a hard drive, and bigger would be better. (I'm planning on probably a 500 GB SSD boot drive, but all data will go on a regular hard drive, or two, or three, or five.) There are some pretty decent deals on 6 TB drives these days.

    (I have no recommendation on video cards, because I do nothing that would benefit form a fancy one, some of which cost more than my car.)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    Wow! That's certainly a lot bigger, faster, and everythingier than I was thinking.

    A friend of mine who draws maps in PS for a living just recommended this one - its within the £1000 limit, and leaves enough to get extra things, like a second slightly larger screen, and maybe a new and larger tablet.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fierce-Legends-Gaming-PC-Bundle/dp/B07JGC79DW/ref=sr_1_71?keywords=game%20pc&qid=1555969541&s=computers&sr=1-71
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019 edited
     
    No, forget that one. The reviews are bad. (I don't think my friend looked far enough down the list to see them)

    I think this one is a possibility?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-8300-Office-PC-i7-16GB/dp/B07N589RCP/ref=sr_1_20?crid=F7GDNNUU2HRX&keywords=hp%2Bpc%2Bdesktop&qid=1555972588&refinements=p_n_feature_browse-bin%3A1481783031&rnid=182781031&s=computers&sprefix=HP%2BPC%2Ccomputers%2C1008&sr=1-20&th=1
    • CommentAuthorpool7
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    I would strongly suggest you get the components and either build it yourself or have someone you know build it for you.
    With branded PCs, you end up paying more, and in many cases they may not be as expandable in the future as one would think.
    Alternatively, if you must go for a branded PC, make sure it is expandable according to your needs.

    As for the specs, nowadays I'd suggest these as base:
    Core i5 (latest gen)
    16 GB RAM
    250 GB SSD (OS drive)
    # TB HDD (Data drive)
    (# based on your needs

    Of course, the more the better, especially for the RAM and processor cores/threads.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    Posted By: LoopysueWow! That's certainly a lot bigger, faster, and everythingier than I was thinking.


    And, I suspect, a lot more expensive, too. What I want would run about $2,700 right now. But memory is still kind of expensive, though it's coming down slowly. But that's why I said "as much as you can afford. :)

    The HP system looks pretty decent with a i7 processor, especially given your budget. (Does "Renewed" mean the same as "Refurbished" does here?) And a 2 TB drive will go a long way (and is fairly easy to replace/upgrade/add on) later, if you need more. 16 GB of RAM is about the minimum I'd mess with these days, but it looks like it could be upgraded to 32 GB later if you need it. As a computer intended for office work, it won't have a high end graphics card, but that, too, can be upgraded later easily enough if you need it (I doubt you will, unless you start doing real-time video processing).

    You might also take a look at Dell's refurbished site (under business - the home stuff is high end gaming machines and waaaayyy too expensive). It's a somewhat limited selection (it's a pity you don't have access to the US site, they have about 20 times as many items available most of the time), but if you're patient they should have new stuff there on a weekly basis. It might be somewhat more expensive, but it's refurbished by the factory that built it. I have a lot of experience with Dell refurbs, and they've always delivered as promised.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    RAM is generally not too expensive, so start at 64 GB RAM. SSD is nice, but costly (I have two 1 TB SSD, cost ~ $A650 each). A good graphics card is important for your work. Anj external hard drive using USB is ~ $A160 for 3 TB, and if possible, I would definitely get one for back up of all your work. And the best processor you can afford.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    Mind you, my current desktop, where I do most of my work, was bought in 2011, with newer graphics card and SSD hard drives. And it uses a much better system than Windows 10 - it is called...... Windows 7.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019 edited
     
    Since money is an issue, I would plan for upgradeability, there are things that are easy to upgrade, and things that aren't

    Personally, I would prefer having 32 GB of ram (or more), but you do actually get quite far with 16 as long as you don't try to run a ton of different demanding programs all at once. If the computer only contains 16, make sure it has 2 8Gb sticks, and not 4 4GB ones though (most computers have 4 slots for ram, this leaves two slots for easy upgrade later without wasting anything)

    The system drive is somewhat difficult to upgrade, so it is best to have something there you will be happy with. Personally, I find 256 GB SSD's to be a bit to small, but again, since money is an issue, you should be able to manage with that, but I'd recommend a 512GB one, and preferably a NVMe drive instead of a SATA one, but in any case, the system drive should ABSOLUTELY be an SSD.

    Processor is very troublesome to upgrade, since new generations often require new motherboards, so this is the most important factor. Preferably, I would say go with an i7 (i7-9700), but you should manage with an i5 too. I am more familiar with Intel, but you do of course have the AMD option too. The downside here is that they usually have more cores, but have less per-core performance, which will hurt CC3+ (but may be better in other graphics software)

    A graphics card is easy to upgrade. While many graphics applications can take advantage of your graphics card, I wouldn't prioritize this highly for the initial computer. It can only help with certain workloads anyway, a better base computer is preferable in the beginning, you can upgrade the graphics card later.

    If you have a small SSD as a system drive, you will need a separate data drive. This is also easy to plug in later, so it is another good candidate for saving money. I would still probably go with a 1TB drive, but you don't have to go for the fastest one. Personally, I don't like HDD's in my computer, and prefer to go all SSD, but this is much more expensive.

    Either get a good monitor immediately, or get something really cheap that you plan to replace later. Throwing money at a medium-range monitor that you plan to replace is useless. And remember for graphics work, contrast ratio is much more important than latency, and get a matte screen, NOT a glossy one.
    • CommentAuthorthehawk
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2019
     
    Something else to consider is support when something goes badly. If you build it yourself, you're supporting it yourself; same goes for having a friend build it for you. If you buy a branded computer, then they will support it - how much and how convenient that support is depends on how much extra you're willing to pay.

    Another alternative is to research local dealers to see if there is someone that will build to your specifications and provide support for some period of time after.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Thank you VERY much everyone :D

    A lot to absorb and consider, and I have to go to my course this morning...

    This site was recommended by one of the FB Group users as a good place for buying. Maybe someone here has used it before and can either condone or condemn it?

    https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/pro-graphics
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019 edited
     
    The major considerations for someone like me, who is terrified of being ripped off just because she doesn't know enough about anything technical, is that the machine is worth the money, can do the job properly, and if it breaks down will also be repairable by the same people who sold it to her without costing just as much as the initial purchase. (That last bit is a problem with the main high street vendor, PC World (or whatever they call themselves these days after the merger). I would do anything to be able to avoid ever using them again after they quoted me £100 just to clean my £300 laptop, but... would I take the extra risk of an online supplier?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Also important update to the conversation - I had a brief flirtation with Amazon last night. For about half an hour I thought it would be a great idea to get one there, but on reading the highly conflicting reviews on the machines that interested me (16GB RAM, 5 processors, 2 different kinds of drive, etc) I decided against that idea altogether.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Ok. I had a very brief chat conversation with Scan PC just now, and will call them in the morning to see if I can't shave a couple of hundred off the price of this one (the cheapest in the range) by swapping things out. They do custom made.

    https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/cad-graphics-workstations/workstations#anc

    It's got the 2 x 8GB RAM sticks, and... I'm not really sure about the rest. Its a bit confusing to me, so I will have to discuss it with them.

    Please - if anyone can see something about this rig that is a definite no-no - please say so?

    Thanks :)
    • CommentAuthorRelyt
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    I was responding to your Facebook post but I am now over here.

    That’s an awesome set up, the only concern would be the cost, don’t forget to budget for your peripherals (keyboard, mouse, monitor etc).

    The Quadro is Nvidia’s professional line of cards. It’s going to be more geared towards graphic development vs gaming, so I think a good choice for you if you can afford it.

    The processor will be more than fast enough, I’m not a fan of overclocking as I want to make sure my parts last for a long time but if done right with proper cooling it supposedly can last just as long as a non overclocked cpu.

    Corsair’s RAM is some of the best quality you can buy which is great, you don’t want cheap RAM as it can cause hard to track intermittent problems. ASUS is the one of (I consider the) best motherboard brands out there, Samsung is a great SSD and HDD manufacturer. The only thing they don’t list is the power supply, I would find out which brand they use, I have never had a problem with Corsair or Antec, and I would avoid any off brand power supplies as it’s the life blood of your computer and a bad power supply can cause all sorts of problems including frying everything.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Thank you, Relyt :)

    I feel a bit more confident about talking with them now. It seems that they tend to use good quality components at any rate.

    I think I clicked the Configure button and got confused as heck and backed out of it. I have just gone there again because I remembered seeing the power supply. The default is

    LN71877
    550W Corsair CXM, Semi Modular, 80PLUS Bronze - Single GPU

    In your personal opinion, do you think there is anything I could possibly afford to do without, or have a smaller, less powerful version to cut the cost down a bit?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019 edited
     
    The first thing I would cut back on is the graphics card. They list a P400 as possible replacement, and that is over £100 saved there. Or you could go for the GTX 1050 which is slightly less saved, but far more powerful (The latter is a gaming card while the former is a professional card, and those are usually way more expensive without really giving any advantage to a normal user)

    Of course, it is a weaker graphics card, but the graphics card isn't your main thing here anyway.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Thank you, Remy! :)

    I would be lost without you and Rely.

    I can see that I will need to have this conversation and the one over on the FB Group page open while I discuss the options tomorrow.

    Remy - that alternative graphics card? will it perform as well when I'm doing stuff in other apps - 64 bit graphics apps like GIMP, Sketchup and Blender?
    • CommentAuthorRelyt
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    That’s a solid power supply. I really am more concerned about brands that have good quality control then I am about bigger specs.

    In my opinion, the first thing to dial back on is the graphics card, Quadros are expensive and most of your tools won’t make much of a difference vs a low end gaming card.

    You might be able to tone the processor down a bit as well, see what options are available. Looking at their configure tab it looks like to go cheaper you may have to step down to an i3 which isn’t ideal (but not the end of the world)

    I wouldn’t change the ram though (unless you get a deal for more)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    You and Remy seem to agree that the graphics card, though very nice, is possibly a bit overkill considering the cost and the purpose of the machine, so I will discuss that in detail with them. Hopefully there will be someone there who understands how graphics apps work and can relate that to the build.

    I currently use an i3 laptop. Never had any trouble with it until MS foisted that Win 10 monster of an OS onto us, and the processor speed just died on me when the security upgrades came out just over a year ago now. Since then I've been limping through everything at a yawn-inducing snail's pace. I need to be able to draw things at full scale and in real-time, not half the size I really wanted it to be and 5 minutes later. LOL!

    Are i3's more efficient now, or will I end up with the same kind of problem where speed is concerned?
    • CommentAuthorRelyt
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Remy beat me to it but yes, double confirmation.

    I’m not current with everything new but the things to consider: the current generation i3 should run circles around your old i3 and quite often laptop processors are a lot weaker then desktop to conserve power. So I would talk to the seller/builder and see the price difference to see if it’s worth it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    The intel security updates that caused massive slowdowns were dependant on the processor generation, not if it was an i3/i5/i7. So a new i3 won't have that problem. Knowing what work you do, I would really advice against an i3 though, but of course, everything is down to what you can afford.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Thanks, Rely

    This laptop is only 4 yrs old, but I know that's probably equivalent to 20 IT years because HP ceased support at the end of 3 years - just when Win 10 really hit me badly with their famous Creators Update.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    I will see what I can sort out, Remy. I would prefer an i5. I know I can't afford more than that, but if something has to give as well as the graphics card it might have to be the number of processors. And anything is better than what I have right now.
    • CommentAuthorRelyt
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    I looked at their other choices for drives and it looks like you wouldn’t save much downgrading hard drive space, so unless they have some other deal offline it doesn’t look like much can be saved there.

    Here is the i5 and i3 side by side:
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i5-8600K-vs-Intel-i3-8350K/3100vs3102

    Single thread is not much different (so cc3 would be fine on either) but the i5 takes off on the overall benchmark.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    The graphics card is practical to upgrade later on, when you can afford it. The processor is . . . not, really. In a real pinch, I'd skimp on memory before downgrading the processor, because it, too, is far easier to upgrade.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Thanks again, Rely :)

    We shall see how it goes tomorrow when I call them. Maybe something in a different range would be better (not specifically set up to be a professional graphics machine I mean), but I doubt it. The average PC for sale out there right now only seems to be 8GB RAM, and not specifically set up to be able to store all that much above and beyond the family photo album. I have 500GB disk in this laptop, and I'm down to my last 80GB storage space. The backup disk I use is also only 500GB. I need at least 1 (preferably 2) TB storage and backup space. That's going to cost me, I know!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019 edited
     
    Taustinoc - thank you :) It may well be that I will have to start with just 8GB RAM, but that is far far more than I can use right now. This machine has only 1.5GB RAM available to the user because of the mess Win 10 and the processor upgrades made of it. 'incompatible' with Win 10 is a polite way of saying it.

    Most of the slowness is caused by all the swapping that's going on. I live in fear of the drive packing up under the strain of it all.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    8 GB of memory is pretty standard these days unless you specifically go looking for more. You'll wish you had more, in all likelihood (I have 64 GB on my work computer, and I wish I had more), but it will be a lot better than what you have now. CC3+ won't use more than about 3.5 GB (being 32 bit software), but I presume most of the other stuff you use is 64 bit. You may run into issues if you're running several 64 bit apps at a time.

    I would recommend ordering it with the fewest number of memory sticks possible, preferably one. That way, you can upgrade to 16 GB by buying one 8 GB stick, instead of two to replace 4 GB sticks. Adding memory is a very basic IT task. Anybody comfortable opening the case should be able to handle it.

    By all means, get the biggest drive you can afford, but with a mini-tower sized case, it will probably be easier to add a second drive than to replace a small one. You then move all the data files to that, and keep the boot drive as clean as possible. (And that's only slightly more complicated than adding memory.)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Brave enough to open a machine...

    Debatable.

    I hadn't realised it was one of those dinky little ones!

    That's good. It will fit a lot better on my dinky little desk :)
    • CommentAuthorthehawk
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019 edited
     
    Something to else consider with smaller cases is not only room for expansions, is also airflow and noise, and where the trade off is for you. Smaller cases means less space to put fans in, meaning that in order to move the same amount of air, they have to spin faster, so more noise.

    If the case is larger, there can be more fans and / or larger fans, so lower RPM, so less noise. One of my cases has a 120 mm fan on top and another one on the side, and it is ridiculously quiet; it is also ridiculously huge.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    If you have doubts about tinkering inside the case, I'd recommend finding a friend who has some experience, or going to a reliable shop. You have to be careful and very meticulous about it, and if you're not . . . bad things can happen. One guy I know tried to upgrade, IIRC, the CPU, and touched the wrong thing. By the time he was done, the only components he didn't have to replace were the CD-ROM drive and the case. So caution is in order.

    If it's one of the little tiny cases, be sure to ask about room for additional drives. There may not be any. That makes upgrading drives more trouble, though it's still practical to do.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    Noise might be a problem. I can be working 18 hours in a row if I'm really 'into' something. Noisy fans eventually give me a headache. I find laptops generally quieter than towers/desktops, but that's probably because being thinner and horizontal heat dissipation is more efficient and the fan might not have to work so hard? I don't know.

    I will ask if there is any option on the size of the box.

    I'd better explain my apparently irrational fear of meddling with electronics. I said I was afraid of breaking them, but not why.

    I've learned not to touch electronic things if at all possible. I seem to both deliver and receive static shocks to and from anything that already has some kind of electronic field about it or the capacity to conduct electricity. I thought it was bad earthing on the pipework when I started getting shocks from the bathroom taps a couple of years back, but the plumber said no. Its got gradually worse the older I get. My latest trick is triggering audible cracking noises and sometimes even sparks in dim light every time I forget about it and grab the edge of the car door to shut it, or if I point too close to the computer screen. Very amusing for the others in the training room, but actually quite painful for me! LOL

    So you can see why I have no intention of opening any machine. I'd probably kill it... or myself.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019 edited
     
    Probably the clothes or shoes you use that assists you in building up static electricity.
    This stuff is why you always ground/discharge yourself before working inside a computer.

    Generally, a desktop can be much quieter than a laptop, because you can mount bigger fans that move more air more efficiently at slower speeds. My desktop is MUCH quieter than my laptop.

    As for PC size, looks like the one you linked is a standard sized PC, and not a small form factor thing, looks to have plenty of room, and is more suitable under a desk than on top of it. Allows for more fans and a quieter experience.
    It is even a "silent" type cabinet.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2019
     
    I also just read (having been reminded of the problem by thinking about it) that people with long hair can accidentally charge themselves up by running their fingers through their hair. I've not had the money to pay for regular hair cuts for 3 years now (women pay about 4x what men do for a cut), so I decided just to let it grow rather than struggle with cutting it myself and looking humorously lopsided. Its nearly waist length now. Maybe that's where the charge is coming from, as I sweep it out of my eyes or just after I've brushed it and put it up out of the way.

    Cheap shoes don't help. Plastic soles. Not so much an insulator, but definitely possible sources of static charge as I walk across carpeted rooms. But most of my clothes are cotton.

    I just read that some techs wear metal bracelets with wires to the floor to make sure they are discharged! Visions of shackles...

    Anyway. Once the machine is bought I probably won't be able to upgrade anything for a couple of years, so I won't be needing to open it, and when/if I get to that stage there is a small shop down town where there's a man who could do it for me - if that doesn't invalidate the 3 yr guarantee. I must remember to ask about that, since it would surely be better to do that than have to ship it back to the supplier with all the risk of damage that would entail.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Professionals do commonly use grounding wrist straps (don't try to make you own, they're quite cheap), and for good reason. What you describe would very likely destroy anything you touch otherwise.

    But really, you're probably better off having the shop do it, when the day arrives, if possible. (And if they can't do it without voiding the warranty, neither can you.)
    • CommentAuthorjslayton
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    One peripheral that you really don't want to skimp on is a good uninterruptible power supply.

    If you regularly have static electricity problems, it might be worth investing a few dollars into a grounding mat to sit under or near your keyboard so that it's the first thing that you touch when using the system. Also, touch the grounding mat with a ring, coin, or knuckle to avoid the unpleasant shock through tender body areas like your fingertips.

    You might also want to get a filter that you can change on the case air intake, especially if you have cats or dogs. Even with a filter, you'll likely still need to clean out the system a couple of times a year because the fans get choked with dust if you don't. Accumulating a lot of dust in the case is a good way to shorten the life of any system.

    As far as the actual computer parts go, I do agree with the other folks that you can probably get by quite well with lower-spec CPU and video card than the defaults listed for the scan pc systems. The current crop of i3 processors like the 8350 are all quad-core units, whereas the older ones like in your laptop are only dual-core units. An i5 would have more processor cores and be about 10% faster clock speed, but you probably wouldn't notice a huge difference between the i3 and i5 for many of your stated workloads. A GeForge GTX 1650 is a bit cheaper than their default Quadro P1000, but is substantially cheaper (it's also newer technology and much more efficient). Depending on your monitor, you may need an adapter to go from any of the modern graphics cards to the monitor.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Goodness!

    Thank you very much :D

    I am definitely going to have to revise this thread and have it open as I speak with them later today!

    I've often considered a filter for my laptop, but had no idea that these things even existed. Please don't laugh, but I had even thought of getting a piece of very low density foam to sit it on, but was afraid that would actually do more damage by straining the fans than an accumulation of dust. This place is very dusty. I don't know why. Its probably the 50 yr old carpets and curtains...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Ok. Stuck at home by an electrical fault on my car, so I've phoned Scan and asked for a quote on a custom build based on that the 3XS WI4000 Design, but cut down to £1000 instead of £1400.

    I was told I would have the quote by the end of the day.

    We'll see what they come back with ;)
    • CommentAuthorjslayton
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    I have seen folks who put their PC main unit into a box and put a high-quality disposable furnace filter and fan across the front of the box (there is a vent in the back, of course). It looks a bit silly, but it keeps the dust out and is easily replaced. A Google search for "air filter pc case" will turn up any number of examples of putting filters on cases. You can get by without a filter, but you need to clean the main system air paths much more often if you don't have a filter. Using something like compressed air blown backwards and forwards through the system vents will clean things out. An image search for "dusty pc case" will show you things that nobody should ever see...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Thanks, Joe :)

    I don't really worry about what real world things look like Joe, as long as they work - so its very possible I will try to sort something out along those lines.

    What astounds me is that even though we put filters on everything else these days, PC's don't come with built in removable filter plates. It seems like perfect madness not to have a filter on a PC, when there's one on every air conditioning unit and tumble dryer. They don't hold a lifetime of important data, but they are much better cared for.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    What astounds me is that even though we put filters on everything else these days, PC's don't come with built in removable filter plates.


    They require maintenance, and people are idiots. All filters do. But if you don't clean or replace your furnace filter, the worst you normally face is that your furnace stops working very well until you notice. But a clogged filter on a PC stops all air flow, and overheating becomes a very serious issue. Modern CPUs are more tolerant of it, but it can still damage things.

    (Mind you, fans clogged with dust can do the same thing, but it takes a lot longer, and the computer may well get replaced before that happens.)

    There are PCs that come with dust filters, designed for high dust environments, like cash registers.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    I wonder if one was designed that set off a flashing red led when half clogged it would be more widely installed...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Well... its what we call Close of Play here in the UK, and I was promised a quote by now. In fact the salesman assured me 3 times he would get back to me today, when it wasn't something I asked for. I didn't demand an answer at all. I posed it as a question - would it be possible to make a build based on that model for the money I could afford.

    It was he who kept telling me I would have my quote by now.

    It hasn't arrived, so I'm beginning to wonder if I was asking the impossible, or if he thought I was just a time waster.

    Was it unreasonable to ask for a less impressive build for just over 2/3 the money?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: LoopysueWas it unreasonable to ask for a less impressive build for just over 2/3 the money?
    Really depends on how much leeway the sellers are in making something completely custom. Based on the configuratior, I struggled pushing that PC down to 1K because there where some components that couldn't be removed using the configurator.

    Here is another option that may be much better for you though:


    It is the previous generation processor, but there isn't that much performance difference. And this allows you to get an i5 instead of an i3, offsetting that difference easily. It also comes with 16 GB ram.
    There is no discrete graphics card in this though, which mean you will just need to use the built-in intel graphics card. Won't be as good for hardware acceleration as a dedicated card, but then again, only certain workloads would benefit from that in any case.
    It is fitted with a regular SSD instead of an NVMe.
    It is not quite as fancy as the other one you picked, but after ribbing the other one of stuff to get down to £1000, this is probably a better option.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Posted By: LoopysueI wonder if one was designed that set off a flashing red led when half clogged it would be more widely installed...


    It would more likely cause a bump in sales of electrical tape (to cover the annoying LED the user has no idea the meaning of).

    If you've never done IT work, you can't possibly grasp how clueless users can be, and how eager they are to blame anyone but themselves.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Thank you, Remy :)

    That might just be the way forward. I'm puzzled, though, about the fan-less cooling system. How on Earth?

    I've added it to my bookmarks.


    Taustinoc - Maybe the led should light up a whole panel with a message about the filter being choked and telling the user to get up of their B and do something about it :P
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      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Yea, I am not familiar with that one. I just assume that these guys know what they are doing here. I am assuming it will work fine for all normal use though, which is your use case.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    I'll see if I can find out a bit more about those things. See if they are reckoned to be as reliable as a fan. Some of the Blender work I've done in the past has been pretty intensive and taken up to 18 hours to process.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2019
     
    Well, this page is a bit like reading one of those bitesize revision sheets. Its not very long, and it only goes so far into the detail, but to sum it up fanless PCs are fine unless you live in the Andes, a hot desert, or put a single piece of paper on top of the bit where the heat is being dissipated.

    They use direct contact between the CPU and a copper or aluminium component and seal the gap with thermal paste to get rid of the tiny air gaps that don't conduct heat so well and might cause localised overheating on the microscopic level.

    One would think that manufacturers would make the dissipation surface vertical (ie the back of the computer) if mindlessly dumping your shopping list on top of the dissipation surface could overheat the system, but it seems that engineers have not yet managed to work out how to dissipate heat efficiently through a vertical surface like that, or they wouldn't have to worry about telling people not to do it.

    https://www.logicsupply.com/company/io-hub/fanless-pc-stay-cool/