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    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2018 edited
     
    Hello all. I am looking for a symbol set that shows overhead view of forest and vegetation and other objects from an overhead view, as found at the link?

    https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/549281/assault-tactical-combat-europe-1985

    (For some reason, I can't seem to attach .png or .bmp files.)

    Nothing in the annuals seems to fit my needs, but the CSUAC collection might. Can anyone tell me if it does or if there is another resource that would fill the bill?

    Thanks

    Mike
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2018
     
    Most of CSUAC is from overhead point of view. 13th Age annual has the best overhead view of mountains. (in annual no 7, 2013)
    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2018
     
    Thanks very much.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2018
     
    Mike, it depends exactly what you're trying to achieve as to what might be best.

    If you're aiming to recreate that 1970s-1980s style of board wargame hex-map shown in your link, most of the features are simply coloured polygons that you can use CC3+ to easily create without them being symbols. The main problems will be those terrain fills like forest and swamp/marsh which originally used the various types of rub-down dry-transfer patterning sheets (map creation by hand back then!). However, if you dig around online, you should be able to find scanned versions of these fill styles in a format you can either use with CC3+, or which you may need to convert to something CC3+ will be happy with. For example, there's a set of SPI-style .tif fills for woods, light woods, mountains, rough and swamp available still on the Gaming Stuff page of John Cooper's Web Site, in three resolutions each, which download as zipped file sets. Naturally, you'll need to tweak these for use with CC3+, especially if you need them in a different colour to black, but that should give you something to work with.

    However, if you're wanting more realistic top-down views of specific things, try the symbols in Dungeon Designer (DD3) and Symbol Set 2 (SS2) add-ons for CC3+, as they have plenty of options for individual trees, bushes, etc.
    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2018
     
    Thanks Wyvern. As it happens, my armor regiment's (37th) coat of arms has a Wyvern on it, usually referred to as "Willie the Worm" when I was in 2-37 and 4-37AR. :)
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2018 edited
     
    mike robel commented:Thanks Wyvern. As it happens, my armor regiment's (37th) coat of arms has a Wyvern on it, usually referred to as "Willie the Worm" when I was in 2-37 and 4-37AR. :)


    :D

    Incidentally, this is an image of part of a top-down map I created very early on in my Campaign Cartographer mapping career. It was taken from a real-world map, but I recreated it using elements from CC3 and DD3 (yes, no "+"; it was THAT long ago!):

    WyvernMap.jpg

    I used it as a background image for some scale aircraft drawings I'd done earlier in a separate graphics program, so they could be "flying" above "real" terrain. I'd hope I'd do a better job of constructing such a map image now, but it shows the power of CC3 that even a novice could produce something like this, I think.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2018
     
    Oh look! You've even added the sheep... :D
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2018
     
    There are some cows too elsewhere on the full map - this is less than ¼ of the whole thing :D
    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: WyvernMike, it depends exactly what you're trying to achieve as to what might be best.

    If you're aiming to recreate that 1970s-1980s style of board wargame hex-map shown in your link, most of the features are simply coloured polygons that you can use CC3+ to easily create without them being symbols. The main problems will be those terrain fills like forest and swamp/marsh which originally used the various types of rub-down dry-transfer patterning sheets (map creation by hand back then!). However, if you dig around online, you should be able to find scanned versions of these fill styles in a format you can either use with CC3+, or which you may need to convert to something CC3+ will be happy with. For example, there's a set of SPI-style .tif fills for woods, light woods, mountains, rough and swamp available still onthe Gaming Stuff page of John Cooper's Web Site, in three resolutions each, which download as zipped file sets. Naturally, you'll need to tweak these for use with CC3+, especially if you need them in a different colour to black, but that should give you something to work with.

    However, if you're wanting more realistic top-down views of specific things, try the symbols inDungeon Designer (DD3)andSymbol Set 2 (SS2)add-ons for CC3+, as they have plenty of options for individual trees, bushes, etc.




    Thanks! I finally pulled the trigger on DD3 and SS2. While there is a lot in them I won't be using, it was a great suggestion. Appreciate the tip.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2018
     
    Glad to be able to help a little, Mike! Be interesting to see some of your final maps at some point.
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2018
     
    I love the sheeps. Could you share the whole map with us? It looks great with all the details
    • CommentAuthorTexas Jake
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2018
     
    Posted By: JensenI love the sheeps. Could you share the whole map with us? It looks great with all the details

    I second this.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2018
     
    Jensen requested:Could you share the whole map with us? It looks great with all the details


    Sadly not. The computer I created it on died some years ago, and the sole copy of the FCW file I still have gives only a mass of red Xs for almost all the fills and many of the symbols. I've no idea why, but I suspect somewhere along the line, the CC3 configuration under which I created the map must have changed (this was before I had broadband access, so it would have been whatever the CD-ROM version was back then only). I have tried opening it using the latest (= last) version of CC3 I still have installed on this computer as well as CC3+, but with no better result. This could be because of the way I'd had to set-up the map instead - so using non-standard pathways for the fills and symbols perhaps. It's so long ago, I have no recollection of that if so, however.

    I saved a series of JPG files from the full map, but not a complete copy of the whole (remembering I wanted it as a background for just those aircraft drawings, so I only needed a small piece for each aircraft I was using). Unfortunately, those JPGs don't comprise a full set to recreate the whole map image either, as I was selecting pieces that made for interesting small-area views only.

    The shot I extracted from one of the JPGs above was deliberately chosen as showing a sample of everything I'd used in the full map though (except the cows!) - so field textures, hedgerows, roads, tracks, a stream (the linear feature running through the scattered tree cover by the lower left corner), gates and trees. And sheep!

    I know the vegetation symbols came from DD3 and (mostly) SS2 symbols, each placed individually (which doesn't take as long as you might think), along predetermined field, road/track and stream lines drawn from the original real-world map, and wherever the map showed other trees to be - such as along the stream, and in a small woodland area not in my extract above. I wanted the whole to look fairly "real", but as seen from an altitude of a few hundred metres. And as it was meant to be 1920s-1930s summer in England, there are of course no strong shadows because it's a typical overcast summer's day...
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2018
     
    That's very sad to read. But those parts remaining give already an impression how the map must have been. I'm pretty sure, the map now is in maps-Valhalla (I mean - it died in battle (computer crash...). I drink an ale on it ;)
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2018
     
    ;D
  1.  
    You can do a 'list' on the symbol definition from the symbol manager. That will tell you the file and filepath the symbol is looking for. You could then copy the symbols to that location. But, not sure how to swap them out or update since you won't want duplicate copies moving forward.
  2.  
    There is actually pretty good details on how to deal with red x a few posts down this thread; http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=4750&page=1#Item_0
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 28th 2018 edited
     
    Yeah, unfortunately on a closer inspection (I'd forgotten how relatively large the original CC3 map was), it's not actually the symbols that are missing, but the fills. From the full map distance, the whole looks like a huge mass of red Xs only, and I couldn't see the hedgerows, etc., are actually all still there. The List command tells you the name of the fill, but not where to find it of course, and checking the Profantasy installed bitmaps folders shows many of the fill names I'd used don't seem to exist now - like "Grass_02", "OpenLandFallow_01", "FieldMatureGrain_01", "FieldPlowed_01", "PrairieDry_04". Indeed, calling up the Fill Style Properties list shows there are vastly more fill styles missing from the template for this map than are still present - I think 72 of the listed fill styles are marked now only with red Xs. Presumably, these must have been removed from the program at some stage. That's a shame, as some have quite evocative names - like AshTerrain, BurntForest, CrackedMud, DeadForest, WaterMuddy and WaterRushing - and it would be nice to know what they'd looked like!
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 28th 2018 edited
     
    Have you done a ffix on the map, saved, then closed it. Then brought the map back up ? That fixed a couple of my old maps, I did have to fix the path for one fill as it was pointing to C:\Profantasy\CC3\ so I changed that to C:\Profantasy\CC3Plus\
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: WyvernPresumably, these must have been removed from the program at some stage. That's a shame, as some have quite evocative names - like AshTerrain, BurntForest, CrackedMud, DeadForest, WaterMuddy and WaterRushing - and it would be nice to know what they'd looked like!
    I am pretty sure those are fills you have added yourself at one point, and never migrated from your CC3 install to your CC3+ installation, or an add-on annual you used to have installed, but don't have in your current installation. As far as I am aware, no fills nor symbols have been removed from the CC3 styles, and all CC3 maps should continue to work fine in CC3+ too, provided the same add-ons are installed (and if you use custom artwork, the same artwork needs to be copied in)
    You can often get a better hint as to where things came from by checking the file paths of the missing fills in the fills dialog. it may also be a case of absolute paths like JimP mentions, so you need to fix the paths for things to work properly.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2018
     
    JimP suggested:Have you done a ffix on the map, saved, then closed it. Then brought the map back up ? That fixed a couple of my old maps, I did have to fix the path for one fill as it was pointing to C:\Profantasy\CC3\ so I changed that to C:\Profantasy\CC3Plus\


    I hadn't, but I have done now, sadly with no success.

    Monsen commented:I am pretty sure those are fills you have added yourself at one point, and never migrated from your CC3 install to your CC3+ installation, or an add-on annual you used to have installed, but don't have in your current installation. As far as I am aware, no fills nor symbols have been removed from the CC3 styles, and all CC3 maps should continue to work fine in CC3+ too, provided the same add-ons are installed (and if you use custom artwork, the same artwork needs to be copied in)
    You can often get a better hint as to where things came from by checking the file paths of the missing fills in the fills dialog. it may also be a case of absolute paths like JimP mentions, so you need to fix the paths for things to work properly.


    I can't think where I've got them from if they weren't included in the original CC3 installation, though there is the possibility I may have found them among the old Map & Catalog Library on the PF site (sadly, this feature seems to have been deleted from the ProFantasy site at some point in the past fortnight, so I can't check that). It would have been done at a stage where I likely wouldn't have tried adding other materials myself to the system separately (other than fonts, which don't need storing with the PF/CC3 components). Hence I'd assumed till now it must have been during an automatic installation process.

    When I checked the file following Jim's ffix suggestion, the missing fills seem to have been stored in the Bitmaps/Tiles/Digital/Overland folder, of which the "Digital" part isn't present in the Profantasy folders. That does make me wonder now if I had indeed located them from elsewhere, though if so, it would almost certainly have been following a lead, or indeed a web-address, provided in some of the accompanying ProFantasy literature.
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2018 edited
     
    Isn‘t that an annual issue (Digital Overland)? maybe you need to install that
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2018
     
    The 'Digital' folder comes from the Vintyi Cartographic Collection.
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2018
     
    ups...
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2018
     
    Thanks Monsen. I've still not got round to installing those assets on this "new" computer (now two years old...), and weirdly, don't recall installing them previously, but I guess I must have done.

    Thanks for trying Jensen! I have all the Annuals installed though, so if the fills had come from them, all should have been fine, especially as I had just Annual 1 installed on the old computer.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2018 edited
     
    So, thanks to Monsen, and a scrabble round to install the various Vintyri, Bogies and CSUAC collections, I am now able to present you with the requested complete version of my old CC3 drawing, updated to CC3+ (sort-of - I haven't really adjusted anything, except a couple of the effects which needed slightly tweaking back to Map Units, essentially, and a slimming down of the sheets and layers). The new JPG shows the full map for the first time, while for those who might wish to investigate further, I've added the FCW file here as well. You will, of course, need DD3, SS2 and the Vintyri Cartographic Collection installed to view the FCW correctly - and discover just how basic my efforts six to seven years ago really were, but some of you did ask... ;)

    Englands Green Unpleasant Land Restored.JPG

    Oh, and the filename? Well, nothing very original, just a slight play on words, as the drawing was intended to be used for a tabletop wargame system based around the works of H P Lovecraft, but set in 1920s-1930s Britain. And Games Workshop in collaboration with Chaosium had already reused the phrase "England's Green and Pleasant Land" for their 1920s-1930s British Isles sourcebook back in 1987.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2018
     
    Congratulations! Well done everyone - team effort :)

    Wyvern - its doesn't look so basic to me. It can sometimes be the most difficult thing on Earth to get something that isn't an aerial photograph to look so very much like one.
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2018
     
    lol, you call this basic? May I see one of your current maps?
    I like it very much, never seen such kind of map done with CC. good job!
    Team effort took a map back to live from maps-Valhalla :-)
    And I learned that there is a thing called ffix. If I ever have the same problem like you I will remember this thread!
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2018
     
    Thanks for your very positive comments Sue & Jensen.

    It is basic though, in the sense it's really just texture blocks with some mild effects in-play. It's the nature of the texture fills that help as much as anything, and the symbols to better hide the joins.

    It did come out much as I'd hoped when I first drew it though, and worked well as the background to my aircraft sketches, which is what I wanted it to do. And historically for me, it's important because it was the first time I realised just how powerful CC was, when I found I could zoom in to one sheep, and have it fill the same space as the entire map currently occupies on-screen with no loss of image detail.
    • CommentAuthorTexas Jake
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2018
     
    Simple done well can be amazing and can be more difficult to achieve than is apparent. Along with that is the importance of having an artistic eye.
    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2018 edited
     
    Below is a new map for an MBT scenario I call "Plug the Gap" where the squadron tank company tries to destroy a penetration of the 1/11 ACRs screen line along the Inner German Border in a hypothetical engagement in the 1970s.

    Also below are the original map and an updated version for "Mind the Gap" (Gap pertains to the Fulda Gap) where the reinforced B Troop would fight elements of the 8th Guards Army in a covering force battle. You can see I have profited by the advice offered by you guys, except for finding those damn symbols.

    I am slowly getting closer to being able to match the style of a military topographic map. It's a long row to hoe.
    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2018 edited
     
    Plug the Gap map, as mentioned above. This map uses 6 11 x 17 sheets, whereas the Mind the Gap maps are 4 11 x 17 inch sheets.
      Plug the Gap.PNG
    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2018
     
    The original "Mind the Gap" map.
      Setzelbach Overall.PNG
    • CommentAuthormike robel
    • CommentTimeDec 23rd 2018 edited
     
    And the new (but still in progress, waiting for me to find the bridge symbols...) "Mind the Gap" Map. The change here is changing from contour lines to shaded elevation levels and overhead trees from DD3.
      Mind the Gap New.PNG