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    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2018 edited
     
    Back to the details…

    This is a day's work (the blue dome). Its a shaded poly onion dome with roof ridges - made for Sanctuary's public bath house.
      Onion dome screen shot.jpg
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2018
     
    Wow ! Looks like a crystal palace dome.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2018
     
    I agree with Jim. Wow!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2018
     
    Thank you, Jim and Shessar :)

    So the day was worth it - thanks ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMedio
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Awesome work, Sue. Way to go!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Thank you, Medio :)

    Its relatively easy to fill the entire city with automatic houses using the House and Street commands, but without these special buildings it all gets a bit... samey.

    Its also a lot more fun if you get just a bit more inventive ;)
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    That's so nice. Are the different blue shades because of the shading or did you actually make the dome using different blues?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018 edited
     
    Thanks, Scott :)

    The entire dome is the CD3 Slate fill. The depth of the blue is caused by an HSL effect I have in play on that sheet to darken and dim down the bright almost glowing blue of that texture, and the differences in the blue are entirely down to the shading of the polygons.

    The drawing was easy. It was calculating the angles that was difficult. I hate maths, so I ended up doing it all by drawing the side view profile of the dome to scale and taking the bearing of each segment from that drawing to dictate the angle for setting the shaded polygon. That's a bit of a simplification, because it took hours working out how to draw the profile (its all down to circles that fit tightly in hexagons), never mind doing all the measurements and working out how wide each segment should be.

    I've found a different use for the same basic shape...

    For a while now I've been wondering how to depict a high density population in the elf districts while maintaining their principles of living by nature and not destroying it. I've probably broken all the rules by doing this, but taking the essence of the concept from Christopher Paolini's Inheritance Cycle I've got them using their magic to grow "Turnip Palms", which have a grossly distended base to the trunk - big enough to hollow out and use as a decent sized home. Later, when the tree comes to the end of its life, the top dies away and the trunk turns to stone.

    The Turnip Palms are my own idea - an extension of Paolini's idea that the elf dwellings where grown by singing the trees into the right shape.

    In this small trial zone you can see most of the turnip palm homes are quite old and have died down to leave the stoney turnip-shaped home they are grown for, while at the bottom of the picture there are younger turnip palms. Hollowing out the main trunk while the tree is still alive, or causing it to grow hollow in the first place, means that elf families can take up residence within 50 years of planting the palm - sooner, if their magic is strong enough to accelerate the growth of the palm.

    (Ok, now is when everyone shouts at me for breaking all the preconceived ideas about what elf dwellings should look like :P )
      Turnip Palms.JPG
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Absolutely LOVE it. These round bathhouses/elfin buildings would make awesome additions to a symbol pack (Community Pack?) as I'm sure loads of people would love to have and use them! You could use the same basic idea for hot-air balloons, as well, and could create great fantasy airships, etc. (HINT! LOL!)...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    LOL!

    I'm glad you like them :)

    If I wasn't doing this for the Atlas and restricting myself to using the same things that everyone else has available then I would have created a new symbol set. It would have been less taxing on the RAM than having all these thousands of shaded polys in the map. Maybe by the time I've finished doing Sanctuary I will have enough time to consider doing an actual symbol set. I also need to consider that this map needs to be 'ready to go', when its finished, completely independently of whether the community art pack is available by then or not - so its just safer to do it this way for now ;)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    At the risk of using the same thing for too many different jobs, I'm going to add a set of dome 'reading rooms' to the city library.

    I'll also be making some much more simple 5 sided onion domes for Witchhaven. Who says only wizards need towers? Wizards live there as well, of course, but they are vastly outnumbered by the witches, which is why its called 'Witchaven', not 'Wizard Towers'
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Posted By: LoopysueLOL!

    I'm glad you like them :)

    If I wasn't doing this for the Atlas and restricting myself to using the same things that everyone else has available then I would have created a new symbol set. It would have been less taxing on the RAM than having all these thousands of shaded polys in the map. Maybe by the time I've finished doing Sanctuary I will have enough time to consider doing an actual symbol set. I also need to consider that this map needs to be 'ready to go', when its finished, completely independently of whether the community art pack is available by then or not - so its just safer to do it this way for now ;)


    But they are already done? Even to make variable ones with different fill styles, you have the shades set up, so that's the hard part! Just copy them out of the map and finish them off as actual symbols when the time comes.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018 edited
     
    I'm not sure if that would be acceptable, since the fills I'm using are all CD3 fills.

    When I'm done with Sanctuary I will see about re-creating the symbols with my own fills ;)

    That way I can make each one completely unique, and introduce subtle imperfections. I can also shade them perfectly smooth, rather than in relatively crude steps. (I have to try and keep the number of polys down, so they only have about a third of the shaded polys they would need to look really smooth.

    So far I have the following ideas stemming from this map - top down symbol set ideas:

    Waterfalls
    Different kinds of dome and spire
    A range of small houses with types of roof not included in the House tool settings (Gambard, Mansard, Jerkinhead, Saltbox, Dutch Gable, Skillion and lean to...)

    [EDIT: the small houses are no longer on the list - but the shaded poly versions in the map will of course be available in the map when its uploaded]

    I also want to work on a tool that draws an aligned flat roof with an actual walls around the edge - any shape and number of sides you like (though I'm not sure its possible with absolutely NO idea of how to create a really complicated tool like that).
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    General question here for the tech-savvy:

    Is it possible to make your own House settings?

    I'm not talking about setting up different fills and hatchings, or any of the stuff you can already adjust.

    I'm talking about creating entirely new roof styles - like the shapes I listed above (Gambard, Mansard, Jerkinhead, Saltbox, Dutch Gable, Skillion and lean to...).

    In addition to that, would it also be possible to make a House setting that draws an aligned fill flat roof on one sheet, and also an offset polygon 2 feet inside the first one on a specified sheet above it (which would need to automatically set itself up with a glow set to inner to give the impression of a low wall around the roof).
    • CommentAuthorjslayton
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: LoopysueIs it possible to make your own House settings? … I'm talking about creating entirely new roof styles ...

    No. The types of roof (hip and gable) built into CC3+ are backed by generative elements coded in the C language and compiled into the product. They are not by backed by data files or definitions that can be modified by the end user.

    Posted By: LoopysueIn addition to that, would it also be possible to make a House setting that draws an aligned fill flat roof on one sheet, and also an offset polygon 2 feet inside the first one on a specified sheet above it (which would need to automatically set itself up with a glow set to inner to give the impression of a low wall around the roof).

    I'm fairly certain that this one is a no as well. Again, the generative elements of the system are written in the C language and user interaction is limited to defining controlling geometry and adjusting a few parameters. It might be possible to write a piece of software that uses the scripting system in CC3+ to do the sort of thing that you ask, but that software would need to replicate the functionality of the existing house command.

    When searching for papers on generative city systems, I recommend looking at papers by Pascal Mueller and Peter Wonka as good starting points.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Thank you, Joe :)

    Even though I feel a bit disappointed in the answer (I was kind of hoping to expand the range quite a lot), at least I know how it is now.
    • CommentAuthorjslayton
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Implementing a user-definable architectural grammar and generation system is a large undertaking (btw, "architectural grammar" is a fun search term and there are several books that are good reads along those lines). There are a number of systems out there that can do this sort of thing, but they tend to be pricey or require a lot of configuration to work. Again, works by Wonka and Mueller are good starting points for looking at these things from a theoretical perspective.
    A general scripting language for CC3+ like JavaScript or Python would be nice and would enable this sort of thing, but those would also require a large development effort. I don't expect to see a huge amount of development on those fronts for CC3+ any time soon.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    That's ok.

    I'm not very tech savvy. I can code in Java and C++, but its only in a sort of easy peasy "ABC" way. I got really high marks in practical, but the test were all to do with making games where the system was already really well developed and I only had to make a couple of new objects to make it do the things the test required (like introduce a user controlled net to catch random butterflies flying around an endless garden etc). As soon as you start talking about deeper things than that I'm totally lost, and about as much use as a wet paper bag ;)

    I think I will do better to try drawing a few small symbol sets with all the usual frills ;)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    ( Jaw drop ) wow.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2018
     
    Thanks Jim :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    Its a little unconventional, but here is the finished elven district of Gaeobal
      Gaeobal.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    Currently working on new rooftops to add a bit more interest to the residential areas.

    This is a mixture of standard House results mixed with my own Gambrel rooftops.

    Still some way to go....
      Gambrel roofs.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    Lovely district
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    Thanks Lorelei :)

    I also turned an old armoury into a library, and started experimenting with a new flat roof style.
      Library.jpg
    • CommentAuthorSilverdrop
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    I like your new rooftops!
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    Loving the gambrel rooftops!!!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    Thank you, Silverdrop and Scott :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2018
     
    Starting to use those gambrel rooftops now in central Rimtown. This particular development is based on the Georgian heart of Weymouth town centre. I know that's a little modern to be using it in a medieval fantasy setting (Georgian is 1713 - 1830), but I don't think it will harm the map too much. I need a shopping centre and somewhere to put the banks and lawyers anyway ;)

    I've added a secondary TEXT sheet for the street names. You can change them, of course, but to me it just makes the city seem more real, and the map more authentic, if the streets have names.
      Main Street.jpg
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2018
     
    Loopysue commented:I need ... somewhere to put the banks and lawyers...


    But surely Sanctuary's already adjacent to a nice area of deep sea ;D
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2018
     
    ROFL!

    Oh you wicked, wicked person!

    ROFL!
    • CommentAuthorpvernon
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2018
     
    Odd question, can you use something similar to make a Mansard roof?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2018
     
    That's not really an odd question.

    You can make any kind of roof.

    The best technique seems to be just drawing it in separate polygons like you've squashed it flat like a bug, then turning them all into shaded polys using the Shaded Polygon (Angle by Edge) tool. Dogtag did a really excellent video tutorial on it a while back.

    Its here:

    forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=6404&page=1

    I've been playing with all kinds of different rooftops just lately, so you might see a few more of them later on when I move onto a different district.

    This is the very simple roof style sheet I pinched from a Google search. Not keen on the butterfly roof, but apart from that I'll have a go at anything really :)
      Roof-Types-Diagram.png
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2018
     
    I'm a bit behind on my commenting...Your elven district looks very organic. Like mushrooms popping out of the ground. Love it!
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2018
     
    Love that roof style sheet. Great reference. Only wish it also had typical roof angles per style, too.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2018
     
    And it would be nice if I could figure out how to do that in Perspectives.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2018
     
    Thank you, Shessar :)

    Scott - I'm guessing the angles with my shaded polys. I mess around with them till they look about right. The angles I used for those gambrel rooftops are 60 for the steep sections and 45 for the top. 45 is definitely too steep, but I like the shading at that angle. The shallower angles often seem a bit too bright for me. They seem to glare a lot paler than the actual texture and can sometimes bleach right out to white. I had to get rid of a few experimental round domes I made for that very reason. Maybe my global sun needs adjusting. I don't know.

    Jim - with your expertise in Perspectives I'm sure it won't be that long before you have it taped ;)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2018
     
    I just click and point, and argue with myself, when I do Perspectives. I'm really not an expert.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2018
     
    Well I've had Perspectives for... er… a long time now, and I can't do what you do with it when you do one of your dungeons ;)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2018
     
    Practice helps. I made messes, then I started making dungeons.