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    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2018
     
    So I thought that if you go into Symbol Manager, click a symbol from the list of symbols on the left, and then use "scale", that it would change the scale of all instances of that symbol currently on the map, and all future instances of that symbol on this specific map. This is the case on the map I've been working on for ages in the "Modern Political" annual style from 2010 - all of my symbols are scaled properly, and when I add a new instance of any of my symbols, the scale automatically matches the symbols already in the map.

    So I must have DONE this whole scaling process correctly at some point, because it works fine in my own map, but apparently I am forgetting something about how to achieve this, because when I was explaining to a friend who is new to using the MP style how to do this, it didn't work. He goes into symbol manager and picks, say, the "large city" symbol, and scales it. Boom, the large city already on the map doubles in size. So that's good. But then when he goes to place another large city symbol, it's back to the original default (much smaller) scale, and looks tiny. So basically, using "Scale" within Symbol Manager changes the existing instances of that symbol already on the map, but not new instances of the symbol placed afterward. So what am I missing here?

    Thanks in advance for any help!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2018
     
    Scale in the symbol manager scales the symbol definition in the map, which means all existing instances AND any new instances of that exact symbol will be using the new scale.

    The one thing to look out for here is what scale your friend used when placing those other cities in the map first. If those weren't placed at the default symbol scale in the first place, new symbols (using the default symbol scale) won't be the same size as those even if you scale things in the symbol manager. Say he originally placed them at a scale of 2.0, then they will always be twice the size of new symbols placed using the default scale.

    Generally, scaling up symbols in symbol manager isn't the way to go, unless you have a change that is supposed to just be for a particular symbol (all instances of it). Normally, you would set the default symbol scale of the map instead, which will cause all new symbols to be placed at that scale. Access this setting from the drawing properties (presets) window.
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2018
     
    Hmm, I know he didn't change anything in the default symbol scale in drawing properties - that's set to whatever it would be by default with a new map. But we can try changing that.

    If I get what you're saying, is the default symbol scale for the whole map possibly overriding the scale set in the symbol manager? So we went into symbol manager and scaled large city by 2, making the existing instances of that symbol double in size, but when we go to place MORE large cities, the map's default symbol scale (whatever it is, I can't check at the moment, but I assume it's 1) is overriding the symbol manager setting and making them smaller again.

    As for when to use one vs. the other, I think it depends. There are some symbols you might want to be bigger than others, but not many. So using the symbol scale might be fine, I'll follow up on this with my friend as soon as I can. Thanks!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2018
     
    Posted By: Saito SIf I get what you're saying, is the default symbol scale for the whole map possibly overriding the scale set in the symbol manager? So we went into symbol manager and scaled large city by 2, making the existing instances of that symbol double in size, but when we go to place MORE large cities, the map's default symbol scale (whatever it is, I can't check at the moment, but I assume it's 1) is overriding the symbol manager setting and making them smaller again.
    Not exactly. My point is that if he placed those symbols in the map at an already greater than normal scale, they will be comparatively larger to new symbols after the scaling too.
    Say the default symbol scale in the map is 1.
    Then, you are going to place some symbols, but you thing they look tiny, so you change the current scale to 4 before placing them.
    Later, you go into the symbol manager and scale the symbols by a factor of 4. This will result in any new symbols being placed (of that exact symbol) to be 4 times larger than before, but since the symbols already in the map was scaled by 4, they will now be 16 times the initial size of the symbols, while any new once you place will still only be four times the size (the scaling you applied in symbol manager)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018
     
    He might have done it by mistake, Saito. I've done it myself.

    If you happen to touch the CTRL key and move the mouse at the same time it scales the symbol automatically without actually bringing up the dialog to tell you by how much.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018
     
    Posted By: LoopysueHe might have done it by mistake, Saito. I've done it myself.

    If you happen to touch the CTRL key and move the mouse at the same time it scales the symbol automatically without actually bringing up the dialog to tell you by how much.


    Well, that would explain a few things over the past year or so.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    LOL!

    I see you've been had by the same experience :P
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Oh, it didn't merely rescale things. My Wndows computers, since I retired, have done little screen dances from time to time.
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018 edited
     
    I deleted most of my original post about how changing the "default symbol scale" didn't seem to do anything, because that issue resolved itself once the program stopped freaking out upon save/close/re-open. I guess you have to DO that (save and close and reopen your map) for "default symbol scale" changes to take effect? Because that's exactly what happened. So I guess that issue is solved, but the weirdness that cropped up while I was experimenting isn't, so I'm leaving that part intact. Apologies for the confusion, but CC3+ was really giving me a hard time for a moment there, it was making it impossible to diagnose anything further because the program wouldn't behave!

    --
    So to do further testing on this issue, I made a brand-new map in the "Modern Political" style. it didn't load a symbol catalog. When I opened the new map, I got this:



    Which is odd. I don't know if it could have anything to do with the issue surrounding this scaling business, but I just found it odd. The catalogs that came with the MP style are all in C:\ProgramData\Profantasy\CC3Plus\Symbols\Maps\Modern Political, which I believe is where they are supposed to be.

    EDIT: So when I save, close, and reopen that map, it fails to load the symbol catalog each time it's opened. I would assume I need to add some "onOpen" macro to map notes to get it to load the catalog, but why didn't it load the right one in the first place?

    And, once I did close and reopen that test map, now when using the little green button to open the recently used symbols (or whatever it actually is, I THINK it's recently used symbols, it gives me a few symbols even when the catalog isn't loaded) suddenly doesn't work. Clicking on it just does nothing. Right-clicking in the symbols toolbar causes CC3+ to crash.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018 edited
     
    The green button you talk about isn't recently used symbols, it is "Symbols in Map". It switches the symbol catalog window to view the list of symbols already in the map. It is the same list of symbols you get up when opening up the symbol manager.

    The reason it doesn't load a symbol catalog is that the OnOpenMacro in the map is wrong, it tries to load a non-existing symbol catalog. The OnNewMacro is also wrong, which is the initial map setup.

    As for restarting to fix the default symbol scale, that isn't required, but when mapping, CC3+ remembers the last scale you used, so just changing the default won't do anything immediately, but you can always go to the default value by opening up the symbol parameters dialog, and clicking the 'Set Normal' button. Untill you do this, it will use the current scale (which is either the default symbol scale loaded with the map, or the last scale you placed a symbol at [including changing scale by holding down ctrl and moving when placing the symbol])