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    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2018
     
    As people seem to be enjoying my Darklands map I did for Malajuri I thought I would do another one. I picked Malajuri for its smaller size, so the next continent I was looking at Artemisia next as there is already a subterranean map beneath Nga-Whenuatoto (which I didn't realize when I did The Darklands. Completely missed it!). But it sounds like from another post that there is already a group mapping out Artemisia for Realm Works..? So how about Ezrute? A world beneath a frost land might be a lot of fun...
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2018
     
    oooooh yes, Ezrute! There are plenty of caves in the frozen tundra for access to deep, underworld caves and tunnels!
  1.  
    Cool! ;-)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018
     
    That would be magic :)
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018 edited
     
    If you are mapping for Artemisia we would love your permission to use the map in the Realm Works Community Campaign World. A group of us have extended the Atlas Project by loading the maps into Realm Works (with the cartographers permission of course) and opening it up to DMs to build the RPG content. It's a not for profit community project that we consider an extension to the Atlas Project.

    We are open to any and all contributing through the current project or the Realm Works one.

    You can see what we are doing here:
    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/realmworkscommunitycampaignworld/index.php
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018
     
    So are the additions that the Real Works Community doing then going to be brought in here and added to our PF "version" of Artemisia or are they going to be two individual and unconnected Artemisias?
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018
     
    That's the idea, for the maps at least. There's a hell of a lot of content being made so not sure people would want all the text etc being hosted on the website. We have started with all of the information available working with the rule that we don't disprove anything that already existed. Quenten is one of the primary contributors and is providing his guidance on the creations that go into it.
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018
     
    In the RW project mentioned by Josh above, I am working on building the content for the Minotaurs of the Magumul Empire that is located one the north coast of Artemisia. The map that is showing in the atlas is one version behind the current one that I am populating. The FCW file shows the more recent map, I'm not sure why the two do not match up. I have been creating maps for small areas of the Empire and will be sending them here for inclusion, but until the main map issue is settled here, I will be holding off. As to the Darklands/Underdark (I am making the assumption that the two are the same) I haven't mapped anything there yet, and would like to see what you come up with.

    Jerry
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2018
     
    Here is one map I have created for the Empire. It is the get-away-from-it-all villa for one of the highest ranks generals of the Empire.
      Villa of General Dur Troroshi.JPG
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018 edited
     
    I've been asked to clarify the relationship between the Community Atlas and the Realm Works Community group.

    The basics here is that they (the Realm Works Community Group) want to create a more descriptive world for use in Role Playing Games, more of an RPG setting than just a bunch of maps like the atlas is, but instead of mapping out a new world, they wanted to use the continent of Artimisia as their base, and then add lots of setting details to this, way beyond the scope of the atlas. So, it is a community project, just like the atlas, but with a different focus.
    So, how does this affect the Atlas and contributing to it? Not that much really.
    - First of all, it just involves Artemisa, nothing else.
    - Artemisia is still open for mapping by anyone. You do not have to be part of their group. If you make a map for Artemisa, they would like permission to use your map in their project, but you are by no means required to give this permission. Personally, I like this project and hope people are willing to give this permission, otherwise the two versions of Artemisia may differ, but nobody will hold it against you if you don't.
    - Their project will of course require many maps, which they contribute back to the atlas, just like any other atlas contributor. As such, their project will result in more maps for the atlas, which is great. I am still in charge of reserving spaces on Artemiisa, so they need to reserve their areas just as anyone else (Of course, as mentioned before, I will never refuse an incoming map just because the area wasn't reserved up front, unless someone else have already reserved the area).
    - So, Artemisia is still "our" island, there are just a bunch of people making up other details for it than just maps.

    Personally, I think this is a nice project, and it compliments the atlas nicely. But any atlas contributor may completely ignore this project if they so chooses.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Thanks for the clarification, Monsen.

    I must admit I was growing increasingly confused by the whole "Realm Works" concept, as those familiar with it who've posted here previously (not just in this topic) have seemed to assume we will somehow know all about it with no further explanation beyond its name. I'm still not entirely certain about its purpose in this case, as the information regarding Artemisia at that TapaTalk Forum address seems scattered and impossible to readily extract, unlike the Atlas maps and associated PDF files. Presumably, if you have the Realm Works program, that may be less of a problem (or perhaps it will be so in future). The key thing is at least I now understand how it relates to the PF Community Atlas.

    I can understand the desire for additional discussion and swapping of ideas, though quite a bit of that has seemed to happen here already. I'm less convinced about the duplication and amending of work already done, which seems liable only to cause fresh confusion by adding new versions of maps that don't match with those in the Atlas. Sadly, I suspect this may put off people here from mapping more of this continent, witness Scott's original comment.

    However, I think we've derailed Scott's discussion of other Darklands areas for the Atlas more than enough now, so back to topic, Ezrute sounds good to me, or maybe the ring-continent of Kentoria (unless all that heavy magic-use has cleared-out the Darklands beneath already...).
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    The information at Tapatalk is just a forum like this forum where we can discuss content. The actual work is done in a Realm Works (RW) project using the software from Lone Wolf Development people.

    The maps created and posted here for Artemesia have been imported into the master realm and topics have been created for each location on each of the maps associated with Artemesia. As new maps are created for our project, they will be submitted for inclusion here. Today I submitted 4 maps that flesh out parts of the Magumul Empire.

    RW is not a mapping program, it is a method of entering information in a relational database that allows the GM to create content and as players explore it, the GM can reveal what they have seen. Maps for example are not revealed in their entirety, but as the players walk across the outdoors or explore a room in a dungeon, just what they can see is shown to them. RW works very well with two monitors, one for the GM to see what he/she needs to see and is not turned towards the players, and the second monitor turned towards the players so that they can see revealed content.

    I will post a few pictures showing screen shots of RW and how it relates to the maps here. The first one is an overview of the Magumul Empire. On the Left is a list of contents that have been entered. The middle pane shows the current active topic. The right pane shows items that have been linked to what is being shown in the central pane. Multiple tabs are available so that in one you can show a map, in another you can see a selected item on the map, another might show Monster/NPC stats for encounters that occur in the selected item. The orange dots on the map of Magumul are pins that can be used to display short blobs of information and can be linked to another topic to drill down into the content.
      Capture 1.JPG
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    By clicking on the small icon map of Magumul in the center pane, an expanded map is shown. This map has multiple pins, each relating to a specific topic. a topic might be another map, or just additional text information.
      Capture 2.JPG
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    By clicking on the pin next to Kon Severtri, content associated to it can be displayed. And So on and so on. I hope this helped describe what we are trying to do.
      Capture 3.JPG
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    I'll make a separate post so everyone knows what it is and what we are doing.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Posted By: WyvernI can understand the desire for additional discussion and swapping of ideas, though quite a bit of that has seemed to happen here already. I'm less convinced about the duplication and amending of work already done, which seems liable only to cause fresh confusion by adding new versions of maps that don't match with those in the Atlas. Sadly, I suspect this may put off people here from mapping more of this continent, witness Scott's original comment.

    However, I think we've derailed Scott's discussion of other Darklands areas for the Atlas more than enough now, so back to topic, Ezrute sounds good to me, or maybe the ring-continent of Kentoria (unless all that heavy magic-use has cleared-out the Darklands beneath already...).


    No worries on derailing the topic as I sort of started it, anyway I suppose. But Wyvern makes a valid point about people being put off from adding to the continent when it is being worked on or used elsewhere, too. That was honestly my thought. I'm more than happy to contribute to our Community Atlas, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of pieces of it then being taken and used elsewhere (I DO fully understand that people are free to download and use the maps, which is why we're doing this, but that's not the same as exporting a full continent into another program/system.) That's just my own personal feelings, though, and the original creator(s) are certainly free to do as they please within whatever rules we have set up for the Communtiy Atlas. I'll just do work for other parts of the Atlas.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    I think Wyvern's final comment is a misinterpretation of what Scott said. Further, no map or information disagrees or conflicts with what is already on the Atlas - that is one of the unbreakable rules for the development of Artemisia on the realmsWork project. Finally, it already has resulted in a number of maps being added to the Atlas that otherwise would not have been done - Magumul Empire, Verinress'Arl, Leoner Imperium, Lampoteou and the 4 maps associated with it, Jerry Thiel's 5 maps. with several more contributions and contributors to come. This is far from a lessening of mapping for the Atlas. And once more, there is NO duplication, and I am at a loss as to where anyone thinks there is. if there is an example, can we please know about it, so it can be corrected.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Scott's comment about others maps being used in the realms Works project is unwarranted. NO MAP IS USED WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF THE MAP CREATOR. And None has been. So I am totally at a loss as to where this has come from. Certainly, if the attitude is to not contribute maps because they will be used in another way. In fact that is the whole point of the maps - that they can be used, modified in another person's 'world'. This has already been done with my inn in Ezrute, and others have indicated they will use various buildings and settlement maps in a similar fashion. So I remain utterly bewildered by Scott and Wyvern's comments. If anything, they put me off making any more maps for the Atlas except in Artemisia. I do not know why others would be so concerned that their maps would be used by others, when that is one of the aims of this project. Why is the use of a continent by others such a problem compared to use of maps within that continent? PLEASE explain what you and others think, because if we cannot share maps, then I, for one, will stop contributing to the Atlas, and just post my Artemisia maps on the RealmsWorks site, not here.
    Yes, I am cross - how did you guess.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Ummm.....

    Actually it was me who asked for clarification, not Scott, Wyvern, or anyone else, though by asking for clarification I seem to have started something I had absolutely no intention of starting.

    I just wanted to understand what was happening. That's all.

    Sorry!

    I didn't mean to cause any upset to anyone at all :)
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Have a read here. Happy to answer any questions. At the end of the day this is about using the Community Atlas for what it was intended but we just took it a giant step further and turned it into a Community Project. I personally think that's a positive for the ProFantasy Community and the Realm Works Community and anything that helps bring us together is something we should be embracing.

    http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=8294
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018 edited
     
    And the confusion is really our fault. We had a discussion early in the project about coming here and announcing it but we wanted to create a working concept to show just how cool it could be as we knew a few of the community members here would never have heard of Realm Works. So apologies, we completely got wrapped up in the creation side of things and forgot to bring that information back here to share with everyone.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    LOL!

    Thanks Josh :)

    I thought it was just me being a bit stupid that I didn't understand it. That's why I whispered a request for an explanation to Remy. It felt like the best way to go, really, since I didn't want anyone thinking I was making an attack of some kind on anyone by just blurting my question out in public like it was some kind of demand or something.

    Like I said before - I am really sorry if I started something. I really didn't mean to :)
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Quenten no need to get in a snit. I (nor Wyvern) said nothing mean or hurtful. I was confused at what the whole Realm Works and Community Atlas connection was after I saw a post here in another thread. The question was answered and the point clarified. Done. I explained my PERSONAL feelings and that others were free to do as they chose. Done. So what's the big deal? I shall just not do maps for Artemisia. No loss as there are plenty of others who do and will. Done. No need to be angry and carry on.
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: WyvernI'm still not entirely certain about its purpose in this case, as the information regarding Artemisia at that TapaTalk Forum address seems scattered and impossible to readily extract, unlike the Atlas maps and associated PDF files. Presumably, if you have the Realm Works program, that may be less of a problem (or perhaps it will be so in future)


    Yes you do need Realm Works to view the content. If you have it you simply import the content pack into the tool and you see exactly what has been shared as the screenshots shared above show. That's part of the benefit. A GM can decide to play their game in Artemisia. Download a single file. Import it into their realm. Import other content they have created like monster manuals, rule-books, perhaps a huge collection of NPCs, and they can combine all those resources into a single realm giving them all the tools and information they need to run their game. We are making it system agnostic, so someone playing Pathfinder or someone playing D&D can just rescan the content they want to use once having loaded their game specific content into the realm and it automatically links up.

    For example. We type: "The cave is inhabited by 12 Orcs" in the content.
    A Pathfinder GM can create or import topics for the Pathfinder 'Orc'.
    A D&D DM can create or import topics for the Pathfinder 'Orc'.

    Once they re-scan the topic (happens when you click save) it creates a link everywhere 'Orc' is mentioned on the page to the 'Orc' topic thus linking the content we are creating to the game specific content they need to run their game. Very powerful feature this one.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    I would like clarification on whether it is necessary to ask permission before using or modifying any map or FCW submitted to the Atlas, so long as it is not used for commercial purposes. So far, one of my maps has been used and modified by someone else without permission being sought, and I not only had no problems with that but was delighted that a map I made was of help to someone else. Frankly, if you don't want anyone else to use your maps and FCW's for any non-commercial purposes, then you shouldn't be submitting any to the Atlas.
    For myself, I will be using many of the settlement and building maps done by others for my own world, I will not be asking permission as they are for my use and no commercial interest. If this displeases anyone, then the whole concept of a community Atlas falls down, and I will withdraw from the Atlas project.
    You say there is no need to get into a snit. well there is if you feel your maps cannot be used by others. Read the license guidelines that Monsen posted right at the beginning of the Project. The Realms works Artemisia project it like the Atlas project, except that one has to apply for and be accepted before gaining access to it. The license guidelines are virtually identical to the Atlas's. If everyone has to ask permission of the map creator before using the map, the whole project should cease now.
    And yes, I AM in a snit, and quite justifiably so. Till this is cleared up, and I have managed to feel better about the project, I will not be contributing any more maps to the Atlas.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2018
     
    Oh dear, Quenten.

    You do seem awfully upset.

    However, I have apologised and explained that all I wanted was to understand what was happening, and if that is not enough then that is not enough, and there is really nothing more I can say.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    1. This started because I was going to do a subterranean map for Artemisia but then I saw a post mention that Artemisia was being used and contributed to on Realm Works, so I decided that since I did not know if something similar was already in the works or done that I would move my underground to another continent so as not to interfere with what someone else might be doing. NO ill intent.

    2. I stated very clearly that I knew and had no problem with people using maps from the Community Atlas, and understood that that is what it was for. I went on to say that I wasn't so sure about their use in things like Realm Works, but that I did not know the whole story of RW. That was then fully explained, but by then you had already gotten angry for reasons which are still incomprehensible to me.

    3. I'm very sorry that something as inconsequential as this thread and a little confusion sends you into an angry hissy fit. I shall from this point forward give you your space -- I shall not reply or respond to any of your posts, comment on any of your maps, or contribute to anything you are a part of so that I do not inadvertently set you off again. Stress is a killer and no one needs more of it, especially for such a ridiculous reason.

    Actually...since you were here first I shall take the high road and let you have whatever place you think you are owed, not contribute to the Atlas at all, and then avoid any further issues altogether. Perhaps I should not bother with the forums, either, if my presence or posts are going to set you off so. Me, I do mapping and am active here to alleviate stress, but that has been shot to hell, so not much sense in going somewhere I know is going to inflict unnecessary stress on my life. I already have enough without having to deal with odd temper tantrums in a place I otherwise thought a friendly, open, and cohesive community. I acquiesce to your greatness and shall not challenge the Big Bossman again.

    So long and thanks for the fish...
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    Cmon everyone. Can't we just make maps and some intriguing RPG content together. Lets not turn this into the bomb it doesn't serve to be.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    First, no need for Sue to apologize for anything - her comments caused no problem whatever. Nor did Scott's until the last post. Wyvern's did however.
    I accept that there has been a misunderstanding, primarily based on insufficient information (which I thought had been given, but obviously I was wrong here).
    And there is no need for Scott to cry off the atlas. His work is so terrific, that I would prefer to see one map from him compared to ten from me.
    Nowhere did I say or imply that I was great, or a Bossman. If that is the message taken, then I am sorry for this. I felt that some, such as Wyvern and Scott, thought that people could not use their maps for other purposes (excluding commercial). I hope that I got that wrong, since from Scott's comments, it seems I have.
    I do not regard myself as great or a Bossman - I am still unsure as to how what I have written can be construed as that.
    I do not like what I said as being a temper tantrum, or that 'I'll be set off' by comments from Scott in the future. I do have the right to get upset if I think people are attacking a project on limited information. Though I do accept that perhaps not enough information was given in the first place.
    I do not apologize for my comments above, but do apologize if they have been taken to mean I think I am such an important person. I am even more hurt by Scott's last untrue and unnecessarily hostile comments.
    And it looks like the Atlas, and perhaps this Forum has now lost 2 contributers, as I am unlikely to enter into any discussions at all.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018 edited
     
    I've just dropped into Realm Works out of curiosity now that I know what its all about, and I must say, Quenten, that your comments about the PF forum are a bit harsh

    I quote your words from there:

    I have been rather annoyed to see people on the ProFantasy forum complain that by using Artemisia in the Realms Works project, others are being discouraged from contributing to the Atlas. one of them being someone who hasn't yet contributed anything but critiques of others' works (though in fairness, they are often helpful).
    Because of this, I will now contribute maps to Realms Works only until this matter has been sorted out, and will not be taking part in ProFantasy forum chats apart from my own contributions that are already there. I am really hurt by what these people are saying. especially since they already know that others can use these maps for their own use as they feel fit - which does include us."


    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/realmworkscommunitycampaignworld/realms-works-artemisia-project-and-profantasy-comm-t99.html

    No one has complained about anything. That's a complete fabrication on your part. I asked Remy what it was all about because I was confused and didn't understand.

    It is my personal opinion that you are massively over-reacting to a bit of general confusion. And that is all.

    Please, just calm down, and I might think about forgiving you for smearing my reputation as the '...one... who hasn't yet contributed anything...' over at Realm Works :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    Sue, you were not ever the person on my mind, nor were you the one i was referring to. I took your comments as general lack of information, and no way a threat to not allow use of your Atlas maps, whether now or in the future, to be used by others. So please do not take any of my comments as applying to you in ANY way. I apologize that I may have made it unclear that I was not referring to you, but I wasn't even aware of the possibility I was doing so. So no need for you to forgive me, since honestly, there is nothing to forgive as far as you personally are concerned.
    The rest of my comments i stand by. I will not enter into this discussion further, but if people want, they can contact me on my email, quenten2911@gmail.com.
    I have done enough damage on this forum as it stands, and for that i am really sorry. as far as over-reaction goes, exactly what then do you think of Scott's last comment.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    I just see a group of people who would normally be friends all angry, upset and hurt for no good reason.

    I hope no one leaves the forum, as that would just be really silly.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    I'll be a lurker from now on.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    That is entirely up to you. As is Scott's decision. As is anyone's decision.

    But I would say that maybe in a few days all this will have been blown away by the wind and we'll all feel a lot happier to just do what we do, which is make maps... or in my case, fills and symbols and things :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2018
     
    Posted By: QuentenI would like clarification on whether it is necessary to ask permission before using or modifying any map or FCW submitted to the Atlas, so long as it is not used for commercial purposes.
    Not as long as it is for personal use, and you don't publish them. As long as they are part of a product for download, such as the Realms Works project, they are basically in violation of this clause:
    "Include them, in whole or in part, in other products for public consumption, free or not"
    As such, the project doesn't by default have any right to use any of the maps at all, only those maps they have an agreement with the artists to use, and in the manner agreed with upon with that artist in regards to modifications.
    This is the license the artists submitted the map under, so that is what we are bound by.


    With this, I am also closing this thread. This discussion is way off-topic, and has been taken way out of proportion.