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    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    The stagamites I have seen in real life are white more often than not.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Really? Okay. Well, probably from the dripping minerals, I guess?
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    And right, you are, Quenten. From the pictures I found, stalagmites appear to be mostly greyish-white and yellowy. I was expecting brilliant colors for some reason, but they look like giant calcium deposits.
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Via Wikipedia "The most common stalagmites are speleothems, which usually form in limestone caves.[5] This stalagmite formation occurs only under certain pH conditions within the underground cavern. They form through deposition of calcium carbonate and other minerals, which is precipitated from mineralized water solutions. Limestone is the chief form of calcium carbonate rock, which is dissolved by water that contains carbon dioxide, forming a calcium bicarbonate solution in underground caverns.[6]

    If stalactites – the ceiling formations – grow long enough to connect with stalagmites on the floor, they form a column.

    Stalagmites should normally not be touched, since the rock buildup is formed by minerals precipitating out of the water solution onto the existing surface; skin oils can alter the surface tension where the mineral water clings or flows, thus affecting the growth of the formation. Oils and dirt from human contact can also stain the formation and change its color permanently."
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Thank you all!

    This is better than Google :P

    I still need a top view shot. The nearest caves to me are 3 hours drive away, and I just don't have the money for that kind of trip right now.

    I also remember that Wookey Hole is very... 'touristy', in the sense that all the visitors are kept at least 50 yards away from things like pristine stalagmites.

    I think, on the theme of colour, white is the dominant thing, but I also vaguely remember from the tour guide that impurities like iron can cause yellowish or reddish stains, and that where stalagmites grow quickly they may have rings where greater rainfall causes more leaching through the parent rock.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    I am noticing you are shading these, which make them different to rotate. Shading should probably be handled like CD3 buildings.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    I think I started doing that because I initially intended to include a transparent shadow with the symbol. Wall shadow and drop shadow effects won't work very well on them because the base of the stalagmite is faded out to blend it with the underlying texture.

    I can see what you mean, though, and I'll have a think about it.

    Maybe I will do that (once I can work out how to translate a Blender model to Wilbur, where I can get an automatic map file), and include separate shadow symbols to match the stalagmites - ones that you can paste in before adding the stalagmite.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Remy - I think the fills I've done so far are nearly ready to send to you. I just need to tweak those dirt fills a bit more ;)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    +10 Loopysue! :D Awesome work!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    LOL! I can almost hear people gulping at the very idea of 10 of me! :P Heheheheeee

    Thank you JMunson :)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Is this better then - "10,000 points to Loopysue for doing such fabulous textural work!" :D
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    As long as they go to Gryffindor that's perfect :)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    LOL
  1.  
    This might have some images; https://azstateparks.com/kartchner/ Google image search has a bunch from people.

    I toured that a couple years ago. Impressive. I remember that even though an the small/micro level the formations are very smooth, they are jumbles of lots of smooth things. So in once sense they are rough, but in another smooth. See what I mean from looking at some of the Google pictures.

    Note that the lights inside are fairly orange in color, which changes the apparent color of the formations.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Very interesting - thank you LE :)

    I enjoyed watching the video, and I can see what you mean about the orange lighting, but also, the limestone in that relatively arid region seems to be fairly reddish anyway. There must be a lot of iron in those hills. No surprise - iron deposits are commonly found in close association with limestone, though only rarely is there enough iron for it to be worth commercial extraction.

    I still didn't find any top down photos, but knowing they aren't really all that rough is a great help. You see - I'm relying on memories that are over 40 years old.

    I really should go and have another look in real life ;)
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Yep, disadvantage of stalagmites is they come as a pair with a stalactite directly above, which makes overhead imaging difficult!

    You may have better luck trying for images of model stalagmites, Sue, as several gaming manufacturers make model cavern pieces which are based on reality, but designed for gaming, so you often find just the lower part is available. And folks do like imaging their cavern set-ups from above! Try a search using "Dwarven Forge cavern images" or "Dwarven Forge stalagmite images" (DF being one of the Big Names in realistic cast model gaming scenery).

    Remy already commented on the "fixed shadow" problem, so hope you can make progress with that aspect too.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    I wasn't going to do any stalactites because that's part of the roof, and no one does the roof in top view battle maps... but I can see it would be difficult to photo stalagmites if the gap was a bit small :P

    Thanks for the search tip. I'll have a look and see what I can find.

    The map files I've managed to generate by exporting a height map from Blender to Wilbur and getting Wilbur to shade the height map like a CD3 roof don't really do the job. That's the problem I'm working on right now. In order for the thing to look even half way right the angle of the global sun has to be just 20 degrees. That's nearly sunset compared to the normal 60 degree default setting. I'm not sure why this is happening. I've checked the actual map file, and the blue (usually roof pitch) is at about 130, which is damn near vertical, but it doesn't look all that different to the same stalagmite without the map file.

    Please ignore the fact that these bronzed stalagmites are again completely the wrong colour. The top 5 have map files, while the bottom three have no map file. Personally I prefer the non map file version, even though they have no shadow and look flat compared to the crystal next to them, which has a very pale drop shadow on it.
      Stalag.jpg
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    The MAP group of five "zing" for me - they look "real" and upstanding - whereas I'm having my common problem with the flat triplet - are these flat, do they sink down in the centre, or rise up? I can't really be sure.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    Well I could do both sets I suppose - one with map files and one without.

    The other thing I'm having trouble with is the way the map file is affecting the transparent edges of the symbol where it fades out to merge with whatever background texture the stalagmite is sitting on. It has to fade out, or we're back to piles of dino dung :P

    If you look at the map file version the transparent edge is no longer fading out properly. Not sure what to do to stop the map file affecting the transparent part like that...

    The entire map file symbol set will have to come with some kind of warning notice - these stalagmites look best with a setting of 20 degrees for the global sun.

    The other reason I was going to do shadowed versions is that it would have been possible to rotate the symbols around a central light source so that the shadow sides always faced away from the light. Shaded symbols (those with map files) only react to the global sun, and not to DD3 lighting effects. I noticed that when I did Bloodrock - the map of a tiny village on a mesa down a drain.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    I agree with Wyvern; in addition, I see no problem with the edges.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    The edges should have no defining line, and there is a very definite defining line on the map versions.

    No matter. I'm working on it :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2018
     
    I think I've got it now.

    The global sun still has to be at just 20 degrees for it to look reasonably good, but at least the colour and the hard edge are better now.

    I'm going to try and get to bed before midnight, so this is the last comment from me for a few hours.
      Stalag2.jpg
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    I just did a duckduckgo search on 'stalgmites overhead view' and only found side views.

    I did look at sites with stalatites, no views looking up at them. Just side views. These could have been useful to give more info on stalagmites.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    Thanks for trying, Jim. That's very kind of you :)

    I think stalagmites are more squat than stalactites (though I can't remember why), but you might have a point there ;)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018 edited
     
    ...but you might have a point there ;)


    rimshot!!! :D
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    Gravity most likely will stretch a stalagtite, and squash a stalagmite.

    You're welcome.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    LOL!

    Sorry - that was a completely unintentional pun! :P

    I think you might be right, Jim ;)
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    Sue, not sure it'll help you much, but by chance, while trying another search tonight, I stumbled upon this old Dundjinni Forum topic from 2006 on someone else's attempts at creating stalagmites for caverns. It was the top-down image I first spotted, though it's artwork, not real, of course.

    And yes, it's that gravity thing in the relative squatness of 'mites and the stretchy thinness of 'tites.

    As for the hard vs. soft edge for the base, there are arguments both ways from actual examples, though in the latest version, I'm not sure the contrast between the darker floor and the bright 'mites really works too well. Even where there is a colour contrast in actual examples, the nature of many solution features is to blend into whatever surface they're upon, given they're actually creating the top part of that surface as they form.

    Haven't looked much at the DD3 lighting effects, but I can appreciate the shadowing problem. So multiple versions it is, then...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    Thank you so much for all your hard work, Wyvern :)

    I saw the Dundjinni symbols at the top of one of the Google searches I did, and simply didn't follow it up at all, but I will have a look at that topic and see if there are any parallel problems resolved there that I haven't yet figured out for my own drawing.

    I think I can produce a special 'Stalagmite Floor' fill to go under the stalagmites once I've settled on a tone and colour for the actual stalagmites. I do know what you mean about the floor. I just know and understand that people will use them on a whole load of textures I never envisaged, so a faded edge is probably a bit safer to allow for extreme circumstances ;)

    I really don't know whether to continue creating them with MAP files or not. Looking back up the thread I can see that the ones without the MAP files do look flat compared to the ones with MAP files. Its just that I feel the need to create some kind of actual shadow.

    I could do them with MAP files, but then also have a set of shadows as separate transparent symbols that you can either add or leave out.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    I'd be inclined to persevere with the MAP file versions, but that doesn't mean you couldn't do an identical set without them as well. I understand your problems with them, and the lighting angles. I've been working on some Planet Nibirum symbols lately for the Atlas. For some Global Sun angles, using the "official" PF planet MAP PNGs included in one of the Annuals, the shadows just look quite wrong, and a planet is a simple globe-shape, not a complex stalagmite! Of course, for different angles and lighting intensities, they work really well, hence my "persevere" comment. Plus, because the shadows only work for the Global Sun (external to the image), it doesn't help when you're trying to show planets at different angles to their own sun when it's actually in the image!

    Weirdly, I'd not seen the Dundjinni symbols sooner, but then Google can be odd like that sometimes, aside from the constant irritation now of having to visit each specific site instead of simply being able to view the image at its proper resolution first.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2018
     
    I know something that might be affecting the availability of Dundjinni symbols to search engines.

    Bogie announced just this morning over at the Guild that the old Dundjinni forum/website appears to be up and running again.

    MAP files quite often have really strange side effects. I haven't really figured out what's going on properly yet, but I will keep trying ;)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018 edited
     
    Taking a short break from the stalagmites (which are giving me a bit of a headache right now), I've done some more dungeon scale fills. I'm going to upload samples of them here for comment, but these are only samples - a patch from each new texture and not the whole thing. That's because there's a lot of them, and because they will all be available in the community collection.

    Dirt cracked

    Dirt cracked 01 SD.jpg Dirt cracked 02 SD.jpg

    Dirt loam

    Dirt loam 01 SD.jpg Dirt loam 02 SD.jpg

    Dirt mud

    Dirt mud 01 SD.jpg Dirt mud 02 SD.jpg

    Long grass (slightly stylised, but I'm still working on it)

    Grass long 01 SD.jpg Grass long 02 SD.jpg
    Grass long 03 SD.jpg Grass long 04 SD.jpg

    Wheat

    Wheat 01 SD.jpg Wheat 02 SD.jpg
    Wheat 03 SD.jpg
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    Oooh ! I like.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    Really like the different dirt/soils. Not so much the grasses. Hard to explain why, exactly. They might look great at a smaller scale on a map.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    Thanks guys :)

    Long grass is really difficult with just the basic version of Genetica. There are no grass or fur textures unless you get the pro version.

    I think I will have to wait a couple of months till the grass grows long enough in the real world for me to take a few photographs to blend together to improve those particular textures.
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    here's some images of wheat fields, closest I could find to looking straight down. As a farmboy in my distant youth, your images seem to me to be swirling in too many directions. As the wheat approached maturity, it would tend to bend over in the direction of the prevailing wind. Occasionally if the wind were to do a quick swirl, you would get a circularish swirl pattern in the midst of a more straight bending all in one direction.
      1.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    another
      2.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    and one more
      Eternal-golden-wheat-field.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    Ooo thank you! They're lovely :D

    Enough to make me have a go at drawing the texture by hand.

    The reason I was trying for top down shots is that Genetica can make a seamless texture from a photograph... within reason ;)

    I think I shall try to capture the colour a bit better now that I've seen these - and try to resist the urge to get too swirly :P
    • CommentAuthorjslayton
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    Look at pictures of crop circles for nice overhead shots. Might be a little far-field for your purposes, but they are great for color and texture.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    *sits still for a moment with gormless look on her face thinking; 'how totally obvious!'*

    Oh. I didn't think of that at all.

    Thanks Joe :D
    • CommentAuthorGThiel
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    Looking at that last pic, I was wondering if you have done any down views of clouds??

    And also when drawing the wheat, the stalks only turn golden the last few weeks before harvest, before that there is quite a bit of various shades of green. (After all these years, would never have thought I would be thinking of harvesting of wheat. And I hated being a farm boy!!!)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2018
     
    I think ahawk was covering clouds, wasn't he?

    Maybe he's busy.

    When I've figured out the wheat thing I'll have a look at that possibility if ahawk hasn't come back on that front ;)

    And I'm sorry! LOL!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2018 edited
     
    Just a short interruption to the general flow here: Some crystals by special request ;)

    Crystal 03 SD.png

    Crystal 04 SD.png

    Crystal 05 SD.png