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    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2018
     
    Something I'm fiddling with for a challenge over at the Guild...
      Here There Be Monstres.JPG
  1.  
    Wow ScottA ! This map is beautiful! I love the compass rose and the way you've mixed a few styles here. The only thing that is bothering me is that some of the land is over the top of some text and symbols so it looks a little weird. But I still think it is a stunning map!
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2018
     
    That's really pretty, and I love the merman. which style or styles did you use for this?
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2018
     
    Land over symbols and text? Do you mean in the top left corner? If so that isn't land but a tear in the map showing the paper beneath... Same with the small holes in the lower right corner. Guess that needs work yet...

    I used a couple different styles. The base style is the Here Be Monsters but I used the ocean from Empire of the Sun as it is more in keeping with the actual style. The tree symbols are from Havenland while the rest are from Here Be Monsters. The old compass roses and the pair of fishmen are my own.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2018
     
    Here, maybe this looks better without a formal border.
      Here There Be Monstres2.JPG
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2018
     
    Yes. It makes the torn nature of the parchment more obvious
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2018 edited
     
    Yup! I thought it was land at first. Quenten's right, it's much more obvious now. Though I am curious how this would look with a wood background as if it were sitting on a table. I still think it's awesome! Thanks for telling us what symbols you used. May I ask what font you used as well?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    Very nice! As Tonnichiwa said, it's a great mix of styles.

    Just a thought, in addition to Tonnichiwa's idea about a wood background, may be consider a very slight drop shadow — just enough to provide a small outline.

    FWIW, I really, really like this map, and the subdued color palette.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018 edited
     
    That's really fabulous, Scott :)

    I agree with the others - a wooden table top background would be less confusing.

    (And now I'm itching to make you one, but I know you will probably do one of your own and be the happier for having done it yourself! LOL!)

    An alternative to the drop shadow is a very subtle dark glow to lift the paper generally from the surface so it doesn't look stuck down with glue on the sides without the shadow. You could do both, but be as minimalistic about the effect as you can, or it will look like the map is flying a couple of cm above the surface.

    EDIT:

    In addition to all of that, you could use the parchment as a fill to texture the map itself and make it look like its drawn on the parchment. But to do that you would have to import the parchment as an actual png fill, not a background image.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    Thanks, everyone. Yes, a wood background would probably be better. I'll play with some and see what I get...

    The font is called Weathered.

    There is a very slight black glow to the "torn" paper, but I'll experiment with shadows and glows to see if I can't make it more obvious.

    There is an image of an old torn piece of paper on top of the whole image but I had to reduce the opacity so much that you only get hints of it. I did try different textures but none seemed to really work for me. I'm still trying different things out.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    The choice of background and drop shadow depends on exactly what you're trying to achieve. At present, the map looks very similar to how modern repairs work with damaged archival documents - the holes are filled as smoothly as possible with blank material (might be acid-free paper, say, but this depends on just what's being repaired). This makes clear where any damaged areas are, for anyone examining the documents for critical purposes, for instance. So if this was a damaged ancient map shown as preserved in a modern archive or library, it would be fine already. If it's more of an RPG prop of just the original document, then yes, I'd also go with a tabletop background, drop shadows and possibly fold or curl shadows on the map itself.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    Well done! I love your blend of these styles.....i haven't found myself able to use the Here be Monsters set yet, as i don't care for it too much, but this mix of styles is perfect! Excellent job. Also, the compass rose is fab.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    Well, here's the map on a wooden surface with a few more bits tinkered with...
      Here There Be Monstres3.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018 edited
     
    As I said over at the Guild - great work.

    About that problem with having to have the torn paper image so transparent that it doesn't show...

    If you remove the transparency from that sheet, move the sheet to the very top of the map, and then add a Blend Mode set to Multiply you might have a bit more luck with it showing up in all its glory. It might show up so well that you have to reduce the opacity setting in the multiplying Blend Mode effect to tame it just a bit ;)

    Doing it that way the texture will cover the entire map and everything in the map will look printed onto it. That has an immediate unifying effect, evening out any difference in styles between the different symbols you have used.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    You may need to cut a paper shaped hole in the table to stop the map appearing on the wood surface fill.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    Since the background of the map is sea, why do you need to do what Sue says above? (either can explain, I am at a loss)
    This map is truly fantastic, and in my book, the best in the competition to date.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    No one has to do anything, Quenten :)

    I am just sharing an idea that won a challenge for me a while back ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    I know that Sue, I just want to know why you think it would be better than the present sea background? For my own education really.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    Oh I see ;)

    Its about this problem that Scott mentioned earlier: "...There is an image of an old torn piece of paper on top of the whole image but I had to reduce the opacity so much that you only get hints of it. I did try different textures but none seemed to really work for me. I'm still trying different things out"

    Transparency reduces the entire texture so that its practically not there at all, but if you use a Blend Mode effect instead of a Transparency effect, and set the Blend Mode to Multiply, all the white will be knocked out of that paper image, leaving only the creases, stains and other darker marks that make it interesting to look at.

    If you knock out the white on that paper sheet that way it won't hide the sea at all. It won't hide any of his beautiful map. But it will make the actual texture of that paper clear, and blend them with the map so that map and paper become one. It may even work so well that Scott might have to reduce the opacity setting in the Blend Mode to tone the paper texture down a bit.

    Its the same principle used by Ladiestorm in her watercolour map, only here it wouldn't change any of the colours (because the paper is essentially white as far as I can see).

    Its pretty hard to describe the effect. Its just something you have to try so that you can see what it does for yourself.

    I used this effect in my Glyphs of Kaylaric (a hybrid CC3/GIMP map) to impose the texture of the parchment scroll onto the part of the map I drew in CC3, which had no paper texture in it at all. In GIMP you just change the layer mode to Multiply, but it does exactly the same thing as using a Blend Mode on a CC3 sheet.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    I like the wood, but I have three suggestions:
    • Consider increasing the width of the wood planks. Presumably boards used for a table, wall, or whatever the map is lying against would be several inches wide, which makes the map seem larger than I'd expect.
    • Consider using a different, more subdued color, preferably something more tan or grayish-brown. Even a medium-dark brown may look better than the bright orange. Think John Roberts Dungeon wood floors vs. DD3 Color wood floors.
    • Play with the glow a little? I like the clearer outline it presents but maybe lighten it a smidgen to more gray than black? It seems pretty stark. On the other hand, that could also be due more to the contrast with the vibrant orange wood color than the glow itself.

    As always, those are just suggestions. The map itself looks great.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2018
     
    Okie dokie, having gone through all the suggestions and done some more fiddling, here we are.
      Here There Be Monstres4.JPG
    • CommentAuthorJosh.P.
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Bloody hell... amazing
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018 edited
     
    Hm. While this map is still way better than anything I make myself, I have to say I prefer the other map color. And, now that the orange wood is gone and you changed the map color to something more grayish-green, maybe tweak the glow/shadow again to better separate it from the gray wood?

    Also, the more I look at it, the more the other map colors looked a lot better, imho. Whatever happened to the map makes this version seem translucent or semi-transparent? The ocean wave texture kind of looks like wood grain that's bleeding through, I think, and this version of the map looks dark and kind of dour. The symbol backgrounds, like the brown behind the mountains, look heavy and less organic to the map than they did in the lighter version. The previous version had a charm to it that this one seems to be lacking, to me.

    But, again, this is an amazing map and far better than what I can do myself, so bravo, sir.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    I love it, great artwork, man.

    I'm agreeing with Dogtag a bit: I like first version 'better', but I like them both heh.

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018 edited
     
    The whole thing looks a lot more natural - very convincing :)

    I think you may need to decrease the opacity of the Blend Mode to about 10-30 % - if that's what you've done with the torn paper. and now that the wood is a lot paler you might also need to tweak that glow up a bit more to separate the paper from it?

    Just suggestions ;)

    The contrast between the map and the table is an important factor, so the table would look better a bit darker than it is - a lot darker than the paper.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    (Or the paper a lot lighter)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Yes - more contrast ;)

    Reducing the opacity of the Blend Mode should lighten the paper, but the wood will also need to be made a darker.

    An example: https://www.cartographersguild.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102047&d=1512565861

    This map (The Glyphs of Kaylaric) managed to win a Main Challenge, even though the torn edge leaves a LOT to be desired compared to yours. The paper and table are very nearly the same tone - the same overall average 'greyness' on the scale of black to white. Apart from taking the time to redo the frayed edges of the scroll, one of the most important things I would do differently if I ever redrew this map is to have the table waaaaaay darker ;)
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Alrighty... brought some color hues up, lowered some opacities, swapped out the wood for a darker one and added a separate crumpled paper layer. Think we're getting there...
      Here There Be Monstres5.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018 edited
     
    Honestly? I love this map in it's original form....with the exception of this latest wooden background - this is perfect! I enjoyed the washed out, antiqued look of the map, which coincides with the symbols and your choice of font. This latest version seems to "new" for this style you've chosen, unless of course, that's what you were hoping for. A bit cartoony, rather than the old world style you had nailed with version one. This is just my humble opinion, though. And coming from someone who doesn't enjoy overland mapping that much, it shouldn't count for much of anything, lol! But i would have stuck with your first instincts and just tweaked that up a bit :) Although i did like the change in color palette in the version above the last. That was nice...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    That's a lot better than the last one :)

    However, now that you've swapped out the previous wood texture for a new more reddish version there's a colour illusion effect in play that you may not be aware of. Objects that are red look closer to the observer than objects that are pale blue. Its to do with the way our brains learn to interpret distance in a natural view. If you think about it you will probably see it straight away - how everything on the horizon is generally paler and bluer.

    This new wood texture has a lot of red colour in it, even though that colour is very dimmed down. The map has a lot of blue in it, so the tendency is to see the map as being further away than the table, which is most noticeable where there are holes in the map. To me those holes now appear to be chunks of wood that are sitting on top of the map.

    You can get rid of this unwanted colour illusion by spreading that outer glow a bit more, and by either reducing the redness of the wood or making it a whole heck of a load darker than it is.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Or you can do as Lorelei suggested :)

    The important thing is the contrast. The map has to be a lot lot lighter than the table. That was what was wrong with my map - the one I showed you as an example. There wasn't enough contrast between the map and the table.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Posted By: LoreleiHonestly? I love this map in it's original form....with the exception of this latest wooden background - this is perfect! I enjoyed the washed out, antiqued look of the map, which coincides with the symbols and your choice of font. This latest version seems to "new" for this style you've chosen, unless of course, that's what you were hoping for. A bit cartoony, rather than the old world style you had nailed with version one. This is just my humble opinion, though. And coming from someone who doesn't enjoy overland mapping that much, it shouldn't count for much of anything, lol! But i would have stuck with your first instincts and just tweaked that up a bit :) Although i did like the change in color palette in the version above the last. That was nice...
    Agreed, on all counts.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Hm... okay, so back to the original... with a few adjustments. So how about the background being an old mildewy paper instead of wood? And I swapped out the old paper texture for the crumpled one on the map. Think we're back to the original muted colors.
      Here There Be Monstres 2.JPG
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Or this slightly darker version..?
      Here There Be Monstres 2a.JPG
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Personally, I like the first version of the map itself (or the second one one, which seems a touch less faded), but I like that last wood background.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    No, wait, there's more. More of a compromise between a couple different versions. Sorry... want to get this one right.
      Here There Be Monstres6.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Hmm...

    Maybe we need to do a vote on this?

    I know which one is my favourite so far (LOL!) but its not the same as Dogtag's :P :P
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018 edited
     
    Honestly, the only vote that counts is ScottA's. I'm just giving my opinion, which is worth, at best, the proverbial two cents.

    Whatever you end up doing, Scott, good luck in the contest/challenge. Your map is a winner in my book, regardless.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    I think its really interesting the way we all like such different things :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    :D
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018 edited
     
    Hehe! I truly and deeply appreciate the comments and suggestions. This isn't even really about the Guild contest -- I still feel like a newbie feeling my way blindly around CC3+, so any suggestions from more experienced users is a great help. I love learning to use new effects and commands, and this is the perfect way to do it!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    That's what the challenges are really all about as well.

    More than 90% of the stuff I do in GIMP and Krita I learned as a result of having no choice but to experiment like crazy till I hit a solution for this or that challenge :P
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    I like the last version a lot - but it is only your vote that counts, Scott.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Cleaned up, toned down, and back to basics. Think I'm done. At least I'm going to let it just sit for a while now...
      Here There Be Monstres7.JPG
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2018
     
    Grrr... things come out different tones and colors when I post as to when I'm working on maps. It's much more subtle on my monitor when I'm working on it. Damnit...