Help/Advice sought re: Scale

Hi, I've been using CC3 for a long time, and have made a lot of stuff, but what I'm still not having figured out is scale. And that is more my fault than CC3, because I am not the brightest when it comes to this stuff.
I have looked for tutorials on how to understand how scaling works, but not quite finding what I need,
which is basically an ELI5 (explain to me like I'm five).

I have my homebrew world, and I have decided the main continent that I'm working the most on, is about 1.7 larger than Eurasia. On that continent I have about 30 "nations" and I want one map for each, which corresponds to the whole continent. And I would like to make them match each other in terms of distances so I can get the approximately correct travel times/distances across these maps. I have tried to use hex/grid overlay, using the D&D Dungeon Master Guide's tips for scale (continent scale 1 hex = 60 miles, kingdom scale 1 hex = 6 miles, province scale 1 hex = 1 mile) but I .. am lost.

Is there anyone willing to help me try to "grok" this stuff? I am very close to having dyscalculia so that you know..

Sorry if I didn't explain it well, I'll elaborate if there's anything I need to make clearer.

Comments

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited February 2018
    The most important thing when it comes to scale is to actually start your maps in the correct scale, the rest should follow more or less automatically.

    I don't have the time to find the size of eurasia now, so for the sake of calculation, let us just say that it is 15000 miles wide by 5000 mile tall. Multiply that by your 1.7, and you have 25500 by 8500. That will be the dimensions you type into the new map wizard to make your map in for the continent map. By having the map set up in the right dimensions, that means you can draw your continent without worry.

    Now, for the nations. To figure out the map size you need for each of those, simply use the distance tool (Tools -> Distance) and measure their width and height on the continent map. Then you have the size to make the map for that nation in (do this separately for each nation). Of course, for this to work, it requires that your continent map was set up in the correct size, otherwise these new measurements would be wrong as well.

    By doing this, you ensure that your maps are already to scale, and when you now make your hex grids with the recommended values, they should fit nicely. By starting out with a map in the correct size, there aren't really anything to thing about for the grids.
  • 7 days later
  • Thanks for replying.

    Does you mean that the pixel dimensions = miles? And won't everything crash and burn if I try to make a 25500 x 8500 map?
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited February 2018
    First of all, CC3+ doesn't use pixels. The dimensions you specify when you create a map doesn't have anything to do with pixels at all. Pixels only come into play when you export it to an image file afterward. These are map units, which are kind of an abstract unit, with different meanings for different map types, but for overland maps, it means miles (or km if you go metric). And vitally different from pixels, they can be expressed as decimal numbers, so you can make things that is a 10th of a map unit in size, which obviously can't be done with pixels.

    And no, a 25500x8500 map is completely fine. These numbers really only serve to set the scale of the map, they don't influence the details of the map. Any map can be problematic performance-wise if you fill it with enough tiny detail, but that can easily be done at any scale.
    The most important thing is to make sure your elements are appropriate to the scale you make your map in. When making a continent map, you don't go around putting every single village or other minor details on it, those details should be saved for when you make a regional or local map of an area. The world map for the community atlas is 23000 by 11500 in size. (Which leads me to think I probably overestimated the size of eurasia a bit in my post above, but as I said, those were just example numbers taken out of thin air, you should get the correct measurements).
  • Aha, that clears up a bit. Thank you for taking the time to reply!
    :-)
  • So lets say you stuffed up at the beginning... if there a tutorial on how to re-scale a map? I have seen Quenten take a map and come back with an improved scale in mere minutes so I assume there's a way.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited February 2018
    Yes.
    First, make sure all sheets and layers are shown, and that no layers are frozen.
    Then, right click the scale button, and choose non-visual scale.
    When prompted to select entities, hit A (for all) then D for do it.
    Then, enter the scale factor when prompted (and hit enter).
    Finally, CC3+ will ask for the scale center. It will probably suggest 0,0, so just hit enter to accept that, or if it suggest something else, just type in 0,0 (and hit enter).


    For the scale factor, remember that CC3+ accepts calculations on the command line, so if you measure some random distance in your map and the measurement say it is 137.43 map units, but you know that that distance should really be 231.54 map units, simply type in 231.42/137.43 when the command line asks for the scale factor, and CC3+ will do the actual calculation.

    Note that while rescaling a map is easy, it is best to get it right from the beginning. If you have based other maps on an incorrectly-scaled one, you suddenly have lots of maps to rescale.
  • Thanks Monsen :)

    I'm certainly learning to get the foundation right from the start.
  • WHOA, thanks for that, I was about to mentally prepare to redraw all 26 kingdoms of my continent... Definitely going to try out re-scaling instead :-)
    Invaluable, thanks thanks thanks.

    As an aside, did I do this right:

    * Created new file for my continent.
    * Added sheet, imported my previous continent image (a jpg). (I cut away as much surrounding ocean as I could first).
    * Stretched it to match the new file.
    * Drew the borders between kingdoms.
    * Found highest and widest numbers of each kingdom (e.g., the kingdom A is 1037.8 units at its widest and 962.2 at its highest).
    * Now the intent was to redraw my existing maps with these numbers I calculated but I will try rescaling them instead.

    Question (I'm really grateful for any tips)

    Say I have finished a kingdom map with the "new scale" and add hexes so I can see how much distance one hex covers, how do I know what size the hex should be?
    The number in the hex window (e.g. 50.000) is that the same unit type as the map (in this case, miles?)

    Would the kingdom map need other hex size because it came from a continent map?
  • Oh, and also, when I export a map the hexes disappear. How can I keep them on the map (otherwise I won't be able to calculate distances?)
  • Hold on, the hexes were there I just had to zoom to 100%. Sorry
  • Another question instead (sigh) - What does "Scale Factor" mean? Is it not possible to enter two new unit numbers (for height and width)?
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    Yes, the size in the grid dialog is the size in map units, same as used by the map. So if your map is in miles, then the grid sizes will be in miles too. As for different sizes, that depends on your needs, but generally, the grid on a regional would be smaller than the grid on a continent.

    As for why the hexes seem to disappear on export, see my article on lines, and pay attention to the part about the grid and 0-width lines.

    The scale factor is just how much you wish to scale by. A scale factor of 2 means that everything will be twice the size, while a scale factor of 0.1 means that everything will be 1/10th the size after scaling. You can input different scale numbers for X and Y if you use the non-visual scaleXY command instead, but remember that this means the shape will be distorted.
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