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    • CommentAuthorPale Horse
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2017 edited
     
    So I've finally been getting back into mapping, and cracked open the CC3+ program I hadn't touched in years. I once spent a good deal of time working up some custom floorplan symbols for traditional Japanese programs, but they were lost to various hard drive failures. I worked up a few more from some saved pngs, and went to work on a basic floorplan for a small house. I eventually want to create a series of floorplans, building up a symbol library based on the flooplans for good Japanese (and other Asian) RPG games. The first map is with some standard sheet effects turned on; the second is without any sheet effect. I want to make up some full color, nearly battlemap-ready maps, but I have yet to find any symbols that satisfy for sliding panel windows or sliding panel doors (shoji, etc.). The floorplan is based on those found in Measure and Construction of the Japanese House (Heino Engel), but I also use The Architecture of Japan (Arthur Drexel), Japanese Homes and Their Surroundings (Edward Morse), and What is Japanese Architecture? (Kazuo Nishi and Kazuo Hozumi) as research. I do have several other no-frills floorplans I previously made, but they only survive in png format and not as CC3 files; they will eventually be recreated.
      Traditional Japanese House 1 small (with sheet effects).PNG
      Traditional Japanese House 1 small (without sheet effects).PNG
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2017
     
    This is great - we don't have enough far eastern stuff. Keep it coming.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2017
     
    I agree with Quenten - more please!

    For the sliding door symbols, try Symbol Set 3, which has a range of suitable floorplan-style options for normal, sliding and revolving doors, glass panels, etc.
    • CommentAuthorcrb31
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2017
     
    Beautiful!
    • CommentAuthorPale Horse
    • CommentTime6 days ago edited
     
    Thank y'all for the encouragement! I'll soon post a kyo-ma version of the same map (and briefly explain the difference between kyo-ma and inaka-ma in a simplistic fashion), to show size changes in different traditional Japanese measurements. Then a pretty full color version with effects.

    I think this whole thread just may be about Japanese houses as I make them. So feel free to post any resources in that vein (especially anything that provides good floorplans for traditional, Ed0-era buildings like mills, blacksmiths, shops, etc.

    Posted By: WyvernI agree with Quenten - more please!

    For the sliding door symbols, trySymbol Set 3, which has a range of suitable floorplan-style options for normal, sliding and revolving doors, glass panels, etc.


    Thanks! I decided to splurge and snap that up. A bit worried the sliding doors have gray metal rails... ny thoughts on how to tweak that to wood color without needing even basic photoshop skills?
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      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTime6 days ago edited
     
    I believe the sliding door symbols in SS3 include varicolor versions. Click the plus sign (+) in the upper left corner of the symbol preview in the catalog to show one or more variations of the symbol. I think the sliding doors have three versions each. One of the versions should have a small square of color in the upper-right corner of the catalog preview. That means the symbol is varicolor and part of the symbol will change to match whatever color you currently have selected. You can see the change as you choose different colors. So, if you're looking for a brown or tan — or anything other than gray — pick that color and see how it affects the symbols.

    Varicolor symbols retain the variable color when placed, so you can pick a color, place the symbols, pick a new color and place those symbols, and the first set will continue to use the first color you chose (they won't change after they've been placed in the map). However, if you want to, you can change the color of a varicolor symbol after its been placed via the Change Properties [CC3 Button Image] button.

    I hope that helps.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
  1.  
    Posted By: DogtagI believe the sliding door symbols in SS3 include varicolor versions. *snipped the rest*


    Guess it's about time I learned to really play with varicolor techniques. Thanks!
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Pale Horse commented:A bit worried the sliding doors have gray metal rails... ny thoughts on how to tweak that to wood color without needing even basic photoshop skills?


    Does this really matter all that much anyway? Old, unpainted wood turns grey after all. But playing about with the varicolour symbols is definitely recommended, regardless!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Pale Horse wrote:Guess it's about time I learned to really play with varicolor techniques. Thanks!
    It's really very easy — in fact, it's easier to do than it is to describe. And, if you have any problems or questions, we'll be here. :D

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorPale Horse
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    The next two maps (one with effects, the other without) may look the same as the first two (other than some cosmetic effects tweaking), But the first is done with inaka-ma style measurements and the other with kyo-ma measurements. See, Japanese architecture is both very simple (post and lintel, rooms are measured by how many straw mats they may hold) and hideously complicated (sometimes they measure from post-center to post-center, sometimes they measure by standardized mats). The following is a grossly oversimplified description, but when working in RPGs that's an inevitability. A shaku, for instance, is not exactly equal to a foot, but it's *just* close enough.

    Inaka-ma: The measurement system used in rural villages and farms. Distances are measured from post-center to post-center. The typical "ken" measurement (the long-side of a tatami-mat, in theory) of a bay is 6 shaku (6 feet) from post-center to post-center. This can make hallways a bit cramped, but it's tremendously easy to map: I can lay down the posts as an inner and outer perimeter for rooms, connect them with walls or panels or open bay, then lay down floors and symbols. One of the drawbacks in real-life, however, is that different sized rooms require different sized mats; your bay distance and thus area may be fixed, but the interlocking mats vary wildly and require custom manufacture in the countryside.

    Kyo-ma: The measurement system used in cities and towns. Distances are measured according to the length of the mat, and all mats are standardized. This results in irregular post distances; they don't fit comfortably on a grid. They do allow for mass production of tatami mats, though, and a standardized area measurement for large-scale city-planning. A typical ken is considered roughly 6.5 shaku (feet).

    For a gamer, it's interesting to note that a 10 tsubo house (tsubo = a 2-mat square) is slightly smaller measured by the inaka-ma system versus the kyo-ma; the difference is about 25 feet squared, or 1 standard 5x5 D&D space. Roughly.

    Why in the world am I making it so complicated? Why not just use 5' squares like a good gamer? Well... I'm not a stickler for exact realism, but I do want to move in that direction, even out of nothing but cultural respect. I also think it makes Japanese dwellings, regardless of measurement system, easy to read: a person standing or sitting takes up about one mat space (6x3), and 2 sleeping bodies take up 3 mats (6x9). You can still use 5' squares to estimate distances outside, but with this knowledge you can tell at a glance how many Medium folks a traditional Japanese building can hold just by counting bays; you hardly even need to know the number of mats!

    Okay, so why not just pick inaka-ma for everything? It's easy to construct. With kyo-ma, I have to go lay down a floor within the grid, then apply posts, then apply walls, then apply a new floor, and repeat. This is a lot of repetitive switching between floors and sheets and drawing rhythms. Well, I like that it gives a slightly bigger scale to city life than country life. I like using the kyo-ma to let massive castles "breathe" a little more. And, of course, it makes city design later a bit more standardized in terms of land plots rather than haphazard building placement; Japanese cities are obsessed with houses smashed together or well-defined fences and walls creating separation. I'm trying to think ahead.

    Anyhow, here's the 10 tsubo kyo-ma house; you can compare scales to see how the measurements look a bit different.
      Traditional Japanese House kyo-ma 1 small (without sheet effects).PNG
      Traditional Japanese House kyo-ma 1 small (with sheet effects).PNG
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Fantastic, and I loved the achitectural explanation
  2.  
    D'oh! Just realized I forgot to label the rooms. Oh well; they're the same as the first map, anyhow.
  3.  
    So, I decided not to label the rooms in this full color, fancy version; it would just be too cluttered. Although it turns out the sliding door symbols in Symbol Set 3 are not varicolor, the gray doesn't stand out as much as I feared. With some rescaling here and there, I think this version came out pretty well.

    There's also been some more depth on the architectural side, as I've done more research and been able to piece together the historical difference between inaka-ma and kyo-ma better. Kyo-ma is, in a sense, an older measurement coming out of Kyoto (hence the "kyo"). The inaka-ma did develop in the countryside, but became enforced by the Shogunate later on in the Edo era precisely because it made homes smaller, and thus allowed more to be constructed and taxed.

    Because they were still taxed by mat size. Seriously.

    Thus, kyo-ma homes are suitable for mansions outside of major metropoli like Edo (Tokyo), and reflect an older, upper class world. Inaka-ma is suitable for both country homes and non-samurai classes in the cities. How this is reflected in inns, temples, castles, etc. are still a bit of a mystery to me. So many floorplans are available, but they rarely have measurements!

    Oh well, enjoy! And please give advice or recommendations for sprucing it up even more. Especially with sheet effects I haven't thought of.
      Traditional Japanese House inaka-ma fancy 1 small (with sheet effects).PNG
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Really lovely, and I am impressed by your research. More Japanese buildings please - you are a master.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTime4 days ago edited
     
    That's very nice, and especially as I am doing an Asian themed project right now. It would be really nice to get a similarly-themed annual one day.