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  1.  
    1. is there a chance or is it in planning to get CC3+ and others on Steam?

    2. what is the product roadmap for CC3+ in terms of upgrades, new versions etc. If I buy it now, how long do I get free updates, when is the CC4+ coming out, how much will the upgrade to new version cost me etc.

    3. is there a demo or time locked version available? That would be awsome.

    4. accompanying products - are they also upgraded to CC3+ or work only with CC3 version. if not, when is it planned to upgrade them too?

    thnx for answers.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017
     
    Well, I don't work for Profantasy so I have no idea on their future plans.

    CC3+ is just out, and all add-ons, except the Source Maps, are upgraded for CC3+. If you already had a copy of CD3 for CC3, you got an upgraded version for CC3+, etc. I have fund Profantasy to be a very good company on help and upgrades. We have received patches to CC3+ free.

    I think only FT3 has a demo version. Its a program, stand alone but can export CC3 maps, to create fractal planets. I used about 1200 of them for my Traveler site.

    Isn't Steam a game rental site ? My Internet connection goes out and I can still make maps because the software is downloaded to my computer and installed there.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017 edited
     
    JimP pretty much nailed it. To add a little to what he said:

    1. is there a chance or is it in planning to get CC3+ and others on Steam?
    While Ralf, from ProFantasy, reads and replies to the community forum fairly often, the best and fastest way to get an answer is to send email to General (not Technical) Support.

    2. what is the product roadmap for CC3+ in terms of upgrades, new versions etc. If I buy it now, how long do I get free updates, when is the CC4+ coming out, how much will the upgrade to new version cost me etc.

    3. is there a demo or time locked version available? That would be awsome.
    ProFantasy doesn't generally publish a roadmap. But it's my understanding that Dioramas Pro is being updated to work with CC3+ next. It won't be a new version of Dioramas Pro, though. It'll simply be updated so it's compatible with CC3+. Also in the pipeline is Source Maps: Temples, Tombs, and Catacombs. I suspect the other Source Maps products will follow.

    As JimP mentioned, CC3+ is relatively new. I think there was something like 10 years between CC3 and CC3+, which was a major overhaul. However, periodic updates do come out that fix bugs and sometimes add a few new features. These updates — as opposed to upgrades — are free. If a whole new version of the software comes out within three months of your purchase, however, ProFantasy offers a free upgrade. And there are discounts for upgrades as far out as 5 years.

    While there is no demo for CC3+ and the add-ons, each one has a 14-day money back guarantee. You can try the full product for 14 days and, if you aren't satisfied, you can email the support desk to request a refund. For more about the 14-day guarantee and the various discount policies, see the Guarantees page on their main website.

    4. accompanying products - are they also upgraded to CC3+ or work only with CC3 version. if not, when is it planned to upgrade them too?
    As JimP pointed out, nearly all add-ons and related products for CC3 have been upgraded or updated to work with CC3+ except for Dioramas Pro, the Source Maps products, and the World War II Interactive Atlas.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017
     
    Yeah, I missed Diorama Pro and the WW2 Atlas. Thanks Dogtag.
  2.  
    thank you all.
    Steam reach would broaden the audience and clientelle as well as get us a whole new huge market for parts and finished maps. Would be awsome.

    As to the post about online as opposed to downloaded - all steam products are downloaded and majority work on and offline (online games dont). Producer/publisher choose if they want to use online protection or some other form.
    Generally, a lot of conservative companies were rather shy to try it, last bigger known was Matrix/Slitherine and their releases suprised them hugely as to their successes.

    Stardock newly started offering software products (as well as games which are on Steam for ages now) and also found big interest in it. - Fences,

    there are a lot of music programs, 3d moddeling ones and some game creation/storytelling software (Like Articity).

    Anyway, I feel that CC3+ is a nice and well supported product. Now my question as a begginer is if I want to go full with accompanying products or just naked CC3+.
    for a home hobbyist, can I live with open source additions available on the internet and only the basic program or do I absolutely need a few of others?

    thnx for help!
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017
     
    The add-ons give you more than just additional artwork. They also give you new tools, new ways to assemble the parts. There isn't a lot they add that can't be done with the basic program, but they make a lot of cool stuff a whole lot easier (in a program with a steep learning curve to begin with). I bought the entire package, and I haven't touched a lot of it, but I have no regrets at all.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017 edited
     
    You can import pngs and bmps and use them for mapping. CSUAC 2 and Bogie's artwork are free. There are posts in here on where to get them and how to install them. Note that CSUAC is for CC3, not CC3+.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017
     
    Posted By: JimPNote that CSUAC is for CC3, not CC3+.


    That isn't actually true any more.

    CSUAC download mirror site for Campaign Cartographerâ„¢ 3+


    Carefully follow the instructions, but it works fine.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017 edited
     
    Isn't that CSUAC. 2 ? Auto correct. I'm on my cell phone.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017
     
    Posted By: JimPIsn't that CSUAC. 2 ?
    That's technically true, but the original CSUAC isn't available anymore, so usually when anyone says CSUAC these days, they usually talk about the new version. Also means there are really no CSUAC for CC3 anymore, only the new one (2) for CC3+.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2017
     
    Thanks. I have been thumping my laptop that wouldn't let me log in. I finaly, after the fourth backup of my files over 2 years, got tired of it. I wiped it and installed linux. Unfortunately it argued with me. So I'm not at my best right now.
  3.  
    Posted By: Athelas LoraielAnyway, I feel that CC3+ is a nice and well supported product. Now my question as a begginer is if I want to go full with accompanying products or just naked CC3+.
    for a home hobbyist, can I live with open source additions available on the internet and only the basic program or do I absolutely need a few of others?


    The best way to answer this question is to ask a question : What do you intend to use it for?

    I purchased CC3+ about a year and a half ago, for the sole purpose of making maps for my games. I intended to make regional/world maps, town/city maps, and dungeon maps... so when I first purchased my products, I bought CC3+, CD3 and DD3. The only other thing I purchased within the first month was the Tome of Ultimate Mapping. I then downloaded and installed the CSUAC, and at the time the Vyntiri collection (I think it's still available here, somewhere). For the longest time, that was all I had, and I've made some pretty good maps with just those three. I also got Bogie's Mapping Objects, when it came out. The only other things I have purchased are two of the symbol packs, SS1 and SS3. Oh, and I was given Perspectives by someone that purchased it, and then decided they didn't want it.

    Now I do eventually plan to purchase the whole package, but I'm on a tight budget so I'm doing it a little bit at a time. That's the cool thing about the profantasy products, however. You DON'T have to purchase everything at once to be able to use it effectively. Personally, I would suggest cc3+, cd3 and dd3 to start with. With those three programs and a little imagination, you can create just about anything you want to. In fact, if you want an idea of what you can do with these programs... check out the Show and Tell forum... a lot of us post maps that we've created there, and it will give you an idea of just what you can do with this program :)
  4.  
    those were my initial thoughts too.
    • CommentAuthordaplunk
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2017
     
    Steam could potentially be bad for the product. While I personally don't think the learning curve is as some people scream it certainly exists. Steam attracts huge crowds of all skill levels and then lets them post reviews directly to the advertisement page of the product. It would only take a handful of lazy people who don't put the time in to learn the tool to post a review stating how bad the tool is because they don't know how to use it to give CC3+ a negative user review which then impacts on future users.

    It also takes away control on how patches are delivered and you have no control over sales. So ProFantasy would need to decide if that's something they want to do.

    I know there are a few map tools on Steam currently and they are indeed getting attention. But the learning curve for those tools is not as high.

    I'd personally love to have it in my Steam account. I like having everything there. But Steam is far from perfect and alot of the bigger brand names are doing what they can to stay away from it.
    • CommentAuthorCyberPanda
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: Athelas Loraiel1. is there a chance or is it in planning to get CC3+ and others on Steam?

    2. what is the product roadmap for CC3+ in terms of upgrades, new versions etc. If I buy it now, how long do I get free updates, when is the CC4+ coming out, how much will the upgrade to new version cost me etc.


    1. Steam charges a flat 30% from a products revenue and not from profits, so ProFantasy would take a huge hit in profits if they started selling their product on Steam. This seems to be extremely outrages, but I don't know what the back end costs are; though I have a feeling it's not 30% of a products revenue.

    2. I would like to see a 64-bit version released, because the 4 Gig limit sucks. : ) I'm sure the reason why they have not released a 64-bit version is because they are trying to catch all the other products up and they don't have a lot of man-power/resources to keep pace with the times.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2017
     
    32-bit limit is 2 gigs. And this software doesn't use a video card if present. I wouldn't mind a 64-bit.version as well.
  5.  
    Posted By: JimP32-bit limit is 2 gigs. And this software doesn't use a video card if present. I wouldn't mind a 64-bit.version as well.

    Not if the program is compiled as Large Memory Aware and is then run on a 64 bit OS, then the limit is closer to 4. (I think the corresponding number for Fantasy GRounds are 1.7 & 3.3 GB depending upon OS.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeOct 9th 2017 edited
     
    I believe CC3+ makes use of the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE linker flag, so it can access about 3GB of RAM on 32-bit systems, and 4GB on 64-bit systems. CC3 does not, however, and is limited to 2GB on both 32-bit and 64-bit OSes. I think that was mentioned somewhere once.

    I could be wrong though. jslayton or Monsen can probably set the record straight.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2017 edited
     
    That's correct. But, also remember that 32-bit windows also have a limit of 4GB physical memory, meaning that even with LARGEADDRESSAWARE, 32-bit programs might not be able to actually get that full 3GB. (Also requires the /3gb boot switch [or equivalent] to be set), while on a 64-bit OS, it is rarely a problem at all getting the full 4GB (Unless you have a system with a really small amount of memory.)

    Here are the spesifications from Microsoft.
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: CyberPanda
    1. Steam charges a flat 30% from a products revenue and not from profits, so ProFantasy would take a huge hit in profits if they started selling their product on Steam. This seems to be extremely outrages, but I don't know what the back end costs are; though I have a feeling it's not 30% of a products revenue.


    In the grand scheme of things, that's about average for an online retail front end for someone else. That's what Amazon gets (that's the good deal for stuff with a high enough list price, otherwise, they get 65%), that's what DriveThruRPG gets. The costs are more than is intuitive to someone who has never run an online business. It's more labor intensive than you'd think, and people are expensive (and they tend to be pretty skilled people to run large server farms).

    However, that means carefully calculating the break even point between raising the price to account for the 30% commission and making up the loss with volume.

    I suspect, also, that the conversion to Steam suitable might be a large pain in the ass. And has been pointed out, the steep learning curve and user review system on Steam might not be a favorable environment for ProFantasy anyway.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2017
     
    My Win 10 computer can handle 8 gigs of ram, but it rarely uses the 4 I have in it.
  6.  
    If I wrote about how many times I heard same anti steam comments I would run out of characters.

    1. publishers/devs keep decisions on when and what to give in sales.
    2. Matrix was one of most conservative publisher that came latest to the steam. Their initial fears dissapeared and now everything is published also on steam. Number of sold games raised extremely even to offset the part of money steam receives. There are ways to avoid that freely, all users buying on their shop and registering keys on steam are not paying anything to steam.
    3. reviews are posted only by owners after return/refund period. There ar no/low number of hobby owners that would fall in that category. Notification about steep learning curve as well as teaching resources on main page would offset that.
    4. Patching process is totally in Devs/Publishers hands. I have games and know devs that push several patches in a day. or week, month etc. There are no limits Steam self messes.

    Hope I enlightened some things.

    also, I know from first hand, but cant give exact names, that the steam cut for the items in shop isnt always 30%. Its varying and they dont take money for keys earned from eventualy publishers webshop (like Matrix/Strardock/Paradox for example)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: Athelas Loraiel3. reviews are posted only by owners after return/refund period.
    I think this is probably the most problematic part for ProFantasy on steam, the refund period. Steam only allows you to use the product for 2 hours (period is 14 days, but actual use is capped at 2 hours). 2 hours is not enough to learn CC3+, and people will be forced to make a decision to return it before they've had proper time to get familiar with the program. For those who don't return it, there will always be people who thus end up owning it, but finding it isn't for them, and ending up leaving a negative review.
    Yes, you can put in a support thicket to have the refund manually processed, but my experience is that this isn't happening unless you have a really good reason (like a technical problem that can't be solved)
    In contrast, ProFantasy has a 14-day money back guarantee for people buying it at their website with no tracking of usage time, leaving people a decent time to test the product.

    I love steam, and have a lot of software on the platform, but I am not sure CC3+ is an appropriate product for steam. I am sure ProFantasy themselves have already looked into this themselves though, and made their decision if Steam is part of their future or not.
  7.  
    This problem you mentioned can be avoided by leading people to ProFantasy web shop where they can get a 14 days test capability.

    One could also make a time based demo for 14 days on steam and use it that way.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalf
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2017
     
    Hi there!

    1. There are currently no plans to put CC3+ on Steam.
    2. We don't even have a rough date for a CC4 at the moment, it is quite some time in the future. For our upgrade guarantee, please see this page.
    3. The same page shows the 14-day satisfaction guarantee period, i.e. you can test CC3+ for 2 weeks and still get a full refund if you are not happy with it. FT3 has a demo version available.
    4. Almost all products have been upgraded to CC3+, i.e. everything apart form Dioramas, the Source Maps series and the World War 2 Interactive Atlas. We are working on those and there will be free compatibility updates for them.
  8.  
    Thnx for answer. Kind of sad for that though
    But Im interested in your opinion on the subject - what do you think about it?

    As to other answers, Im convinced. Will test buy the product aftervacation.
  9.  
    Any plans to put the program on Mac OSX?
    My brother asks.

    thnx
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2017
     
    That will not happen with the current iteration of the product (CC3+). CC is based upon a CAD engine (FastCAD) which is only available for windows, so porting to other operating systems would mean ditching the current core and rewriting it from scratch, which would be a significant cost. Currently, people that are running CC3(+) on other OS's, like Mac and Linux, are using software like Crossover and Wine to do it.

    What the future might bring is only known by ProFantasy, but I seriously doubt they are prepared to make any promises regarding Mac support at the current time.