[WIP] Starter dungeon

Nelson SIward · September 2017

Alright, so the idea here is for a campaign startup: PCs are all in their skivvies, having been captured by a dangerous pagan cult game starts with cultits coming to collect them for ritual sacrifice, but im sure the PCs have different plans.

I'll start with a basic layout of the basement, and go from there...

Nelson SIward · September 2017

First issue: I have a sorta kinda cell going on, but i need to figure out how to make the "gate" look more like a gate. Suggestions?

Nelson SIward · September 2017

Top-Down for reference

Nelson SIward · September 2017

Alternate to the current cage problem:

Nelson SIward · September 2017

After some drafting, Looks like this is sorta where I want to be...

I'm pretty happy with this version, I'll hold here for feedback before moving on to floor 1!

Nelson SIward · September 2017

You know, I'm starting to get worried that these folks here on Rue Avignion aren't very nice people....

(1st Floor)

Also, why is it cultists always seem to be in drastic need of a maid?

Dogtag · September 2017

LOL! These look really nice. You seem to have a good eye. If I can offer one piece of advice? Consider adding a new sheet (if it isn't already there) called something like SYMBOLS LOW with a Wall Shadow effect (you can copy it from the other symbol sheet now, woo-hoo!). Then modify the effect to give a much shorter shadow and move the lower symbols, like the skeleton and the small rocks to this new sheet. That will, both, give the lower symbols a more realistic shadow length and also spice up the map a little by making the shadows less uniform. I typically use at least three sheets for shadowed symbols (LOW, MEDIUM, TALL), sometimes more. For example, you could use a SYMBOLS MEDIUM sheet for furniture and, depending on the size of the piles, for the debris (or vary the debris between MEDIUM and LOW). The trick when placing the symbols is to make sure you select the set the correct sheet to active when placing them, though you can always move them later, too.

I hope you'll share more as you make them, they look good!

Cheers,
~Dogtag

ScottA · September 2017

I agree with Dogtag, and that's a trick I've been doing with my maps, too, so that things of varying heights cast more appropriate shadows. And flat things like rugs and splotches of blood or gore I give no shadows, as they really wouldn't cast any. But looks great overall!

LadieStorm · September 2017

these are looking really good so far! I agree with Dogtag and Scott, especially on this last map... if you look, you have your small bushes, and the little rocks casting the same length of shadow as your big bushes and trees. That rock probably wouldn't cast a shadow at all, and the little bush near it wouldn't cast much of one.

I do want to ask once question, though. You seem to have a strip going down the right hand side there... it looks like two different terrain types? I was wondering the reason behind the different terrain strip. Is it that the terrain changes after you leave this dungeon? If so... I would change the edge of it. First, terrain doesn't just change in a straight line like that... there would be more of a sprawling, randomness to it. If you were to use the smooth poly tool on the right hand side, and make it a sweeping, curvy mass, maybe on the main terrain? That might make it look more believable. The other thing I would do, is add an inner edge fade, so that it looks like one terrain is bleeding into the other. You can do that by putting the two terrains on separate sheets, then choosing the inner edge fade for the top most terrain.

These are just suggestions, of course... these maps look really good!

Dogtag · September 2017

Actually, even if that strip of terrain is a road or path, you'd probably still want to add an Edge Fade, Inner to it, so it blends better with the background. Also, in that same case, you still might want to make it less perfectly straight, unless it was engineered (a la Rome) rather than worn down by use.

Also, props for using SS4. I love that symbol set.

Nelson SIward · September 2017

Posted By: DogtagLOL! These look really nice. You seem to have a good eye. If I can offer one piece of advice? Consider adding a new sheet (if it isn't already there) called something like SYMBOLS LOW with a Wall Shadow effect (you can copy it from the other symbol sheet now, woo-hoo!). Then modify the effect to give a much shorter shadow and move the lower symbols, like the skeleton and the small rocks to this new sheet. That will, both, give the lower symbols a more realistic shadow length and also spice up the map a little by making the shadows less uniform. I typically useat leastthree sheets for shadowed symbols (LOW, MEDIUM, TALL), sometimes more. For example, you could use a SYMBOLS MEDIUM sheet for furniture and, depending on the size of the piles, for the debris (or vary the debris between MEDIUM and LOW). The trick when placing the symbols is to make sure you select the set the correct sheet to active when placing them, though you can always move them later, too.

I hope you'll share more as you make them, they look good!

Cheers,
~Dogtag

Your comments on my maps, stuff like this is exaclty why im posting it. I was irritated by the shadow uniformity but im not brave enough to mess with sheets yet, instructions like this are what will make future efforts better. Thanks man.

Posted By: LadieStormthese are looking really good so far! I agree with Dogtag and Scott, especially on this last map... if you look, you have your small bushes, and the little rocks casting the same length of shadow as your big bushes and trees. That rock probably wouldn't cast a shadow at all, and the little bush near it wouldn't cast much of one.

I do want to ask once question, though. You seem to have a strip going down the right hand side there... it looks like two different terrain types? I was wondering the reason behind the different terrain strip. Is it that the terrain changes after you leave this dungeon? If so... I would change the edge of it. First, terrain doesn't just change in a straight line like that... there would be more of a sprawling, randomness to it. If you were to use the smooth poly tool on the right hand side, and make it a sweeping, curvy mass, maybe on the main terrain? That might make it look more believable. The other thing I would do, is add an inner edge fade, so that it looks like one terrain is bleeding into the other. You can do that by putting the two terrains on separate sheets, then choosing the inner edge fade for the top most terrain.

These are just suggestions, of course... these maps look really good!

Its a city street, and I wish I was as practiced with sheet effects so i didn't have embarassing problems like this. I remember exactly going "ugh, this looks so fake" when i did it. I'll follow these instructions as I go.

Posted By: DogtagActually, even if that strip of terrain is a road or path, you'd probably still want to add an Edge Fade, Inner to it, so it blends better with the background. Also, in that same case, you still might want to make it less perfectly straight, unless it was engineered (a la Rome) rather than worn down by use.

Also, props for using SS4. I love that symbol set.

Thanks again. I really like these suggestions you give about how to use sheet effects better. Im embarrassed to be so derpy with sheets :P

Dogtag · September 2017

No worries, man. That's understandable. But I can assure you there's nothing to be nervous about with sheets. As it happens, the SS4 maps come with a built-in SYMBOLS LOW sheet!

Try this:

Save your map. It's always good (best) practice to save your map before you try something new.
Right-click the Change Properties button and select Move to Sheet from the pop-up menu (4th item in the menu).
The command line changes to read, Select entities (0 picked):
Select one symbol you want to move to the low symbols sheet. You can multi-select symbols later but, for now, just try moving one.
The symbol is highlighted (on my screen it gets a pink frame around it) and the command line now reads, Select entities (1 picked):
Right-click the mouse and choose Do It from the pop-up menu.
The Drawing Sheets dialog displays.
Find and click the SYMBOLS LOW sheet in the list. You don't have to click the checkbox, just click the sheet name.
The sheet name is slightly highlighted (on my screen the name is highlighted in gray). If you did click the checkbox, it will have a checkmark in it.
Click OK.
The dialog closes and the symbol moves to the SYMBOLS LOW sheet. You may see a white outline around the symbol and no change to the shadow. If you clicked the checkmark in the list, the active sheet will also now be the SYMBOLS LOW sheet.
Click Redraw .
The map redraws/refreshes and the symbol now has a smaller shadow!

Bask in your success and in your growing experience with sheets. It's a good feeling. Then, try doing it again but, this time, at step 3, select more (or all!) symbols you want to move to the SYMBOLS LOW sheet. And don't forget to bask again. I know it feels really good when you start to learn more about the software.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
~Dogtag

LadieStorm · September 2017

Hey Nelson, no need to be embarrassed, we were ALL new mappers, once. You should see some of my first maps!!!

Working with the different sheets is easier than it looks. In fact, if you work through the tutorials that come with the programs, they tell you exactly how to use them. Plus, if you haven't purchased the Tome of Ultimate Mapping, yet, once you get through the basics, most of us will highly recommend it! It's a comprehensive advanced guide to all of the programs profantasy puts out. It also gives you advanced tips, tricks and work arounds to do just about any project. The tutorials in the Tome are extensive, and by the time you get though it, a lot of the things that seem foreign to you know, will become second nature to you.

I was a hold out for a good long time, and it took the members here a lot to convince me that it was worth the money (it's not much), but now that I have it, I can't believe I didn't get it sooner! I still haven't gone through all of the tutorials, but I've already learned so much because of it!

Nelson SIward · September 2017

I've got the old tome, next payday im probably gonna grab the new one.

Dogtag · September 2017

Which "old Tome?" If you have the Tome for CC3 (Tome v3), you may want to contact ProFantasy to see if you qualify for a voucher for a free new one. And, in the meantime, basic sheet functionality hasn't changed from CC3 to CC3+.

If, however, you have an older version of the Tome (pre-CC3) then it won't have any info on sheets, since CC2 didn't use them will have limited information since CC2 Pro had a more limited implemenation of them.

EDITED based on Monsen's reply below.

Monsen · September 2017

Posted By: DogtagIf, however, you have an older version of the Tome (pre-CC3) then it won't have any info on sheets, since CC2 didn't use them.

Not quite true actually, although sheets didn't have the prominent position they have today, they where still quite useful back in the day. It is documented in the old CC2 Tome, although the information is quite basic. Don't remember when they where introduced, but they were there in CC2 Pro, which is what the first tome covered.

Dogtag · September 2017

Hm. I'll need to check my copy, for historical purposes!

Nelson SIward · September 2017

v3.

Dogtag · September 2017

Well, there you go then.

ProFantasy Community Forum

[WIP] Starter dungeon

Comments