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    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017 edited
    Hello everybody,

    I am new to CC3+ and to this forum and I want to learn how to make my maps better. As I now finished my first map, I would like get some feedback from you to improve my skills. My first map is a regional map for a German indepent roleplaying game from the 90`s which is no longer supported (thats why i bought CC3+). So I used the original world-map for the basic layout (main river, mountains, forest, borders, desert etc) and then added details.
    I have to admit that I was overwhelmed from the possibilities of the program and used symbols etc. from all different styles so that the map looks a bit eclectic. For future maps I learned my lesson and I will try to make them look more consistent (I maybe was too euphoric :-)).
    I am not satisfied with the landmass, especially since I saw Hadrians Demosthenes Swamp I know that I need to learn a lot. So maybe you could give some advice how to improve.

    Thanks in advance, Jensen
      Hogur Umgebung.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017
    This is a great first map! Personally, i am a fan of mixing styles up, as it gives the maps a more individual and personalized look and feel to them. I especially like your desert region :)
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017 edited
    I'm very impressed. Love the sea especially as well as the desert.
    Give yourself a really big pat on the back for this. I'm not quite at your standard for overland maps - and this is your first CC3 map?! Fantastic.
    And the mixing of styles seems great to me.
    Welcome! This is beautiful, well done! I love the mix of styles, it's something that I like to do as well. I look forward to seeing more from you! :)
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017 edited
    Thanks for the comments, it's my first completed map and it took me a lot of time. But I learned a lot and I think the next maps won`t take so long. I am a bit (positive) surprised that you like the mix of the styles. I thought that maybe was a mistake, but your feedback gives motivation!
    One question: I am unsure about the size of the different symbols. The camel in the desert is nearly as big as the town. How do you deal with the right scale of symbols?

    Thanks you!
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017 edited
    For symbol scales on overland map, remember that they just represent a point of interest or provide general information about an area, they are not an accurate scale representation of that feature. The main point is that they are large enough to see end decipher properly, you can't expect different types of symbols to scale correctly in relation to each other.
    The most important scale-wise is to have the relative sizes of similar entities make sense. For example, a village should appear smaller than a city for example, but you can't really scale a camel and a mountain properly with regards to each other, that would make the latter unreadable small.
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017
    Thanks Monsen, that makes sense. So it is up to me to find the right proportions.
    Great forum by the way. Very quick responses. Happy to be here.
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2017
    Hello Jensen

    This is a great first map. Congratulations, you did a great job on this one!

    There is nothing in the map that needs to be criticized. But since you asked for recommendations, here are a few thing you could play with:

    -If you wanted the dunes symbols to blend in a bit more with the desert background, you could put them on a separate sheet and add a light transparency effect. Please note that not all symbols react in the same way to this effect. Also, if you want the desert texture to be a bit more subtle, you could use copy to sheet (right click on the copy button) and copy the desert entity to a new sheet, which is lined up just above your current sheet (so it is covered by your current sheet). Hide the current sheet and use the modify tool to change the texture of this new entity to the Desert_MS fill style. Then you copy the edge fade effect from your current sheet to the new one (this way you make sure that both entities cover the same area) and add a transparency effect on the current sheet.
    -Using a transparency effect (or a reduced inner opacity on an edge fade, inner effect) is in general a good way to make the map look a bit smoother. I can really recommend this with farmland fills (unless you use these fills to cover up something else), because one will still be able to see the individual fields but the texture blends in more nicely with the background.
    -You made a very nice transition between the grassland and the desert by using a lighter grass texture for the borderlands. Don't hesitate to play around with the edge width when using an edge fade, inner effect. Sometimes using very large values can get you very nice effect. If you use a separate texture for the borderlands, as you do, you could put the borderlands on a separate sheet and add a edge fade, inner effect and play around with it. This way you'll get a nice blend in both directions.

    This is all advice I have for the moment. Note that I do not think that this map needs to be changed in any way - it looks great. Those are just some advices in case you wanted to toy around a bit.

    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2017
    Super work! :)

    I'm still learning to map myself, so I've not much in the way of useful feedback...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2017
    Hello Jensen :)

    I agree - this is a great first map.

    As for mixing styles - I don't think I've ever NOT mixed them ;)
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2017
    Thanks to you all for the motivating feedback!
    Hadrian you put the fingers into the wounds, your three points were exactly what I was looking for. I implemented them already and I will play with these effects a bit. Thanks! The only thing that did not work was the transparency on the green fillers, but now I have new input to work with.
      Hogur Umgebung2.jpg
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2017
    Hi Jenses,
    this looks great! Note that you could increase the edge width even more, if the lighter grassland overlapped with both the desert and grassland fill. Don't hesitate to increase it by the factor 10 to see how it looks.

    I think I know why the transparency effect did not work too well on your map. You used farmland and background textures from different styles. Normally the farmland textures from each style have a color quite (or at least somewhat) similar to the background texture. Therefore they blend in easier once you start to reduce opacity. But, if the background is in a different tone you have to decrease the opacity a lot more to get the same 'blend in' effects, which also means that the division between the fields become less visible.
    To work around this, you can use the adjust hue/saturation effect on the farmland sheets (but you would have to put the MS and HW fills on separate sheets).
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2017
    Great, again super advice. I will elaborate on this! This is about finetuning and I`m looking forward to do it. It`s a bit like meditating :-)
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2017 edited
    Hello everybody,

    I got my area reserved for the Community Atlas and now I think in which style(s) i should draw it. As I came to no quick conclusion I decided to test around a bit to get a better impression on the different styles of CC3+ and to improve my mapping skills. To show you that I am not lazy hanging around but working :-) I wanna show you 2 of my test maps. I made redrawings of my first map, but not with that level of detail - as I said, it was just for testing and playing around with the new input I learned from your comments (especially with the effects). Again, input is welcome, the most headache I get from the question which symbols from different styles do fit to each other, especially in the b/w styles are not too many different symbols to use. Maybe I should learn how to make my own camel-symbol in b/w?

    Regards, Jensen
    You are doing great with your maps! Welcome to the forum. Each of the styles you have used look really nice. Remember, you can mix up styles as well. :-)
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2017
    Jensen, are you looking for a specific camel symbol? There is a camel trail symbol (which includes a camel with a trail of footprints) in the standard CC3 map symbols set, which is also available as line art or varicolour in the SS1 add-on Fantasy collection. In the Mike Schley style, the Camel Trail symbol has a camel being led by a robed guy instead (also in line style only in the Mike Schley Inks style). There may be others I've missed too, though as has been commented here previously, we could probably do with more overland "economic" types of symbol like this - animals, wild and domesticated, specific plant and tree types, etc. (hint, hint, should anyone be short of ideas for what might be useful fresh items for the Annuals...).
    • CommentAuthorJensen
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2017
    Hi Wyvern, in a perfect world we would have all kind of symbols perfectly matching to all different styles - but this is obviously impossible ;). I know the camel symbols but i was looking for one nice matching the landform style. That's why I thought of drawing my own (I know that this is perfectionism or even niggling). Anyway thanks for your help and yes I like the idea of more economic symbols pretty much! An Annual including these is something I would buy.
    Best, Jensen
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2017
    I like both maps quite a bit. The second one appeals to me as a great players' map. As for symbols... There are never enough. :)