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    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017 edited
     
    Getting into incompatible symbols problems. I wanted a simple circular hole where the wood hatch lets down into a square hole. But it doesn't match these floor symbols. The circular hole looks more like the walls. I guess I could build up the walls using the small wall pieces for Issue 66. But I want to get done sooner than that would take.

    The big problem is planning ahead. Getting the stairs in is fine, but the wall beside it has to be done first. i have been using undo rather more often than I am used to, but this Iso/Perspectives dungeon is new to me as well.

    The low walls for each room, and beside the staircase, are to show they exist as full height ones, but if I made them full height, you wouldn't be able to see the room.

    Hopefully this doesn't look too cheesy.

    edit: Getting the hole in the wall leading into this area is well its an older perspectives symbol and it looks way off from these symbols. And the opening is dark, when it leads outdoors.
      lost_mines01_000015b.png
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    I couldn't find the circular hole, but here is a square one and a wall hole, to illustrate the problem.
      lost_mines01_000016b.png
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    oh this is looking pretty cool, jim! You and Tony really have this Perspectives thing down :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017 edited
     
    Interesting... I was going to mention how you should be able to use the Cylinder command in Perspectives (ICYL in the command line) and simply give it a negative depth. That's always produced a round hole. But when I fired it up to double-check before I posted, I found my own copy of PER3 failing to work!

    I can make a negative 3D Box (square hole) but not a negative cylinder! Positive values work as expected but if I use a negative value or simply move the mouse down, the end result is nothing but an unfilled outline of the "top" of the cylinder. WORKAROUND: Strangely, I can use the 3D Regular Poly command (IRPOLY) with a value of 90 sides to make a good-looking hole.

    Does anyone else have this issue?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    Posted By: DogtagDoes anyone else have this issue?
    Yes, I can replicate this.
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017 edited
     
    I've been able to do a negative cylinder quite easily, with no issue. However, I've only been able to draw cylinders whose main axis is vertical. I'm with version 3.76 of CC3+.
      negCyl.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017 edited
     
    Yeah, I'm just making a cylinder, along a vertical axis.

    Here's the result using a 3D Regular Poly instead. Using Gathar's actual cylinder as a guide, I used 32 sides for the poly.

    per3_annual_symbol_floor_3dhole.jpg
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017 edited
     
    Interesting. I haven't run into this issue yet. Great looking map so far Jim.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
     
    Yes, I take my hat off to those who can work in 3D. My brain has too few neurones left to make a decent job of it. Your map looks great, Jim
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
     
    yeah, me too, Q. Sue's brain works like that, too.....her perspective is incredible....i mean you've seen that drawing she did over at the guild? the one she based off the dolomites? freaking amazing. me? everything looks flat. haha. It's all the medical knowledge...crams the brain with critical thinking and the like....leaving no room for amazing talents such as these. lol
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
     
    Are you a medico too, Lorelei?
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
     
    Second career, as i was a Sales Coordinator and Lab Rep for quite a few years prior to nursing school in my 30's, but yes, i've been a Registered Emergency Nurse for 10 years, Amb. Surg, some Interventional Radiology and most recently left clinical to become Director of Patient Services for a home health agency (where ER nurses go for mental "respite" LOL)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
     
    Wow. I am retired now, but was Assoc Prof in Radiation Oncology at Royal Brisbane Hospital for over 25 years, treating cancer patients. Enjoying retirement VERY much.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017 edited
     
    Whooosh. Well, Now that I have a better handle on which sheet it shows up on... Getting an entrance door, that shows day light outside, would be good to.
      lost_mines01_000019b.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
     
    Jim, is this map in Basher Bay or Growler bay? I thought it was in the latter. If so, you can edit the heading if you like
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 16th 2017
     
    I looked at several maps trying to decide where I wanted to map, and my brain hiccuped or something. Likely me being tired.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017 edited
     
    Nothing up my sleeve ! (riiip !) Shades of Bullwinkle J. Moose.

    The entrance... well, I think I can fade the two fills, and maybe blend them, to get an entrance that leads out to day light.

    The lower right room leads down to a flooded room. The ladder is floating on the water, not touching the bottom of the lower area. Again, the walls are representative, they don't show the full height. The blue cylinder is one I made, I changed the floor from brown to blue 73.

    edit: Oh. I tihnk it would be easier for people to see all of the map of these mines, if I make them in parts. What say you all ?
      lost_mines01_000025b.png
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017
     
    Here is the rest, so far. The fake door leads nowhere, or there is a 10 foot drop behind the door. A and B connect to more maps.

    I have no idea on how to fix the entrance so it looks better. I had to make a new item to make the blue hole.
      lost_mines01_000033b.png
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017
     
    This is looking really great, Jim :)
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017
     
    Hi Jim,

    I think I may have a solution for you.

    Get a trapdoor symbol from Perspectives 3, then turn it so the wall is going in the right direction when you look inside the hole. Make sure to put this symbol on a sheet above whatever sheet your wall is on.

    Next, make a new sheet and place it above the sheet the trapdoor symbol is on.

    Add a blend mode to this new sheet with a multiply 100%.

    Change the color in your color box to bright yellow (color #4).

    Use the polygon drawing tool to add a yellow polygon just on the inside of the trap door. If you made the polygon too big it will bleed the yellow color out onto the surrounding wall.

    Turn on sheets and effects and you should have something similar to this.
      Isometric City of Wonders.JPG
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2017 edited
     
    Looks cool, Jim. These sorts of maps always put me in a gaming mood.

    Some thoughts to consider or ignore:
    • Maybe consider getting rid of the large brown stone wall and the large cobble floor, and let the map "float." Neither the wall nor the floor really matches the dungeon itself and, to me, gives the impression of an artificial container.
    • Unless it's going to obscure part of the map, consider using full walls for the north and east sides ("top left" and "top right") of rooms and corridors. This can help to emphasize the cutaway aspect of the low walls. Since you're using perspectives, you can probably use PER3 wall textures to make creating walls easy (This can also be true for the smaller front/cutaway walls, if you get tired of exclusively using the CA66 symbols.) Admittedly, though, the symbols look nicer than walls drawn with the Wall tools.
    • Some of the walls have one layer ("row") of stone, some have two. Is there a reason for that? In some places it looks like there might be windows. If not, then maybe consider sticking to just one layer of stone for the lowered/cutaway walls.
    • Breaking the map up may or may not aid in viewing it. The coolest maps done in this style seem to be large spidery jobs that go off in multiple directions. You may want to make as much as possible on the one map. It should be easy enough to cut and paste into separate maps if you feel you need to later. Or even, make a "master map" like that and then copy and paste pieces to individual sub-maps if you want to focus on specific areas. No reason you can't have both a full and a set of partial maps, with minimal additional effort.

    Also, if you're looking for more symbols, remember that TJ Vandel's CA111 Temple of Bones was designed to work well with Herwin Wielink's CA66 symbols, and both work nicely with the Wielink style built into Perspectives. I'm really looking forward to seeing where you take this!

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2017
     
    The multiple wall levels is to show there are walls there. not an open space.

    As for removing the walls... in the past I remember folks saying they didn't like the floating corridors and rooms. Adding the two walls and the stone floor is me trying to show they are inside a mountain... if there is a better way, I can try it.

    Thanks Tonnichiwa, I'll try that when I can.
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2017
     
    Hello Jim, nice map indeed!
    I'm bothered by the colour of the hole in the top room. I really think it should be the same colour as the surrounding stones, not the same as the background.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2017
     
    Last year I did a CC3 Perspectives area for my Crestar site. I substituted a bitmap fill I had, but I was trying to limit myself to ones commonly available.

    I have been thinking about altering the walls and stone floors, along with that floor hole, to better match the Annual floor pieces. I may have to do some digging around on my hard drive and see what I have found, and what is available in the way of bitmap fills. I do have a set of them on my site, they are linked here as part of my showing how I made contours for my previous Crestar site version. I'll check those over and see if they will work for this.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2017
     
    Posted By: JimPI'll check those over and see if they will work for this.
    Just make sure if you are using non-standard fills that they can legally be distributed along with the atlas download. It is a requirement for all atlas maps that resources are either from Official CC3+ compatible ProFantasy products, one of the community add-ons listed in the resource sticky, or distributed along with the atlas itself. The latter of course require that the creator is ok with redistribution, even if stuff is free, redistribution usually isn't allowed.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2017
     
    I will. The ones I have are free on my site.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2017
     
    Posted By: JimPThe ones I have are free on my site.
    Just make sure you are legally allowed to give me the rights to redistribute them in the atlas. I need to include the fills with the atlas itself, not just point the users to a download somewhere.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2017 edited
     
    They are Natalya Faden's bitmap fills. But if they don't fit for the changes, I'll have to look for a different source.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: TonnichiwaHi Jim,

    I think I may have a solution for you.

    Get a trapdoor symbol from Perspectives 3, then turn it so the wall is going in the right direction when you look inside the hole. Make sure to put this symbol on a sheet above whatever sheet your wall is on.

    Next, make a new sheet and place it above the sheet the trapdoor symbol is on.

    Add a blend mode to this new sheet with a multiply 100%.

    Change the color in your color box to bright yellow (color #4).

    Use the polygon drawing tool to add a yellow polygon just on the inside of the trap door. If you made the polygon too big it will bleed the yellow color out onto the surrounding wall.

    Turn on sheets and effects and you should have something similar to this.
      Isometric City of Wonders.JPG


    I don't get the 'multiply 100%' part. I did the rest, and added a glow on the yellow rectangle. I'll post the png and the fcw.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2017
     
    I really do need some help on this.

    Note that while I'm not in the strike zone for Tropical Storm Cindy, it might affect my internet connection.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: JimPI don't get the 'multiply 100%' part.
    Multiply is a setting on the blend mode sheet effect. Blend mode is an effect that controls how the pixels on the current sheet should be blended with the pixels on the sheet below. It is very similar to transparency, but allows for more options on how the pixels are combined.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2017
     
    This is my first attempt on the door. I had to stretch the stone doorway, but I probably should have shrunk the trapdoor symbol.
      lost_mines01_000037b.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2017
     
    That looks good Jim. Much better than I could do. Perspectives seems very arcane to me
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2017 edited
     
    The glow looks nice, if a little strongly yellow.

    Hrm. Out of curiosity, why did you have to stretch the doorway? For me — and this may be very different for other folks — I think doing so creates an Escher-esque problem. Before, the upper floor of the dungeon looked to be flush against the brown wall, and 10 feet down from the top. That's where the first attempts at the entrance were, too. This new one now looks as though it's bridging a 10-ft gap between the brown wall and the start of the floor and, in addition, rests 10 ft higher, on the top of the brown wall,

    I think that, If you want to keep the stretched doorway, you'll need to move the symbol so it starts 10 feet to the west, away from the brown wall. However, that leaves another problem, namely the wood jutting out the back, which will probably make it appear there is a small gap between the archway and the brown wall. An unstretched version, like the one Tonnichiwa posted, might work nicely, though. Either way, to achieve the illusion I believe you're after, I think the symbol needs to be placed to the west, on top of the existing floor, not east of it.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017
     
    So far I haven't been able to duplicate what he did. I'll try a few more times, but I haven't had breakfast yet.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017 edited
     
    A bit better, need to change the walls and stone floor color.

    A closeup and one further away. Darker, color 134, yellow. And one all the way out.
      lost_mines01_000039b.png
      lost_mines01_000040b.png
      lost_mines01_000041b.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017 edited
     
    That works nicely! Though, to be honest, I don't know why you need the trap door symbol at that point. It seems to add unnecessary wood boards to the floor. I think Tonnichiwa's idea was to use the open trap door symbol, as opposed to the closed one, to add a sense of depth behind the doorway, as if delved into the surface. In the case of his suggestion, you wouldn't necessarily need the arch (though it might look cool and be worth a test). I suspect you might need to adjust the height or width of the open trap door symbol if you want it to match the dimensions of the arch.

    Personally, I think the yellow glow, while neat, may still be too oversaturated and overpowering. If you choose to keep the arch rather than use the open trap door symbol, you may want to just add a small poly with an outdoor fill (grass, or something similar) behind the door archway opening. Not entirely sure how that'd look but it may be worth a shot.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017
     
    Here is the same, without the trap door. I'm going to have to think about the walls changes, etc.
      lost_mines01_000042b.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017 edited
     
    Yeah. I just tried adjusting the height and width of the open trap door symbol but it doesn't work because the symbol is actually a diamond shape, so making those changes really distorts the symbol. However, because of the way the arch is drawn, it covers the wider trap door nicely. You lose a lot of the intended illusion doing that, though.

    Intrigued by Tonnichiwa's suggestion, and your conundrum, I tried 3 different versions of the idea, myself.
    1. Open trap door symbol. I also created a new sheet just above the floor and drew in a poly, over the wooden trap door part of the symbol, with the same fill as the floor.
    2. Added a cavern opening over the trap door symbol.
    3. Added the archway symbol over the trap door symbol.

    per3_open_pit_as_door_3_versions.jpg

    I didn't include a glow in my test, but you get the idea.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017
     
    How did you get them to cut a hole in the wall ? That has been part of my problem.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017
     
    I knew I had seen some circular holes in Iso Annual same color as the floor pieces. Now, I cannot find them in either CC3 nor CC3+. I'll just export the symbols from one map and use them in this one. Now I cannot find the old one. I'm taking a break. I guess I am more tired than I realized. Later.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017 edited
     
    Okay, I finally found the old map. It has CA66 Hole, floor or CA66 hole floor in it. And I exported the symbol. I cannot find the same symbols in any CA66 fsc file. I'm still going to take a rest.

    Oooh, I used them in my arcology dungeon Iso maps.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017 edited
     
    The "hole" is simply the open pit symbol Tonnichiwa used from the CA66 PER3 Traps catalog. It's just rotated so it can be placed against the wall instead of the floor.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2017 edited
     
    I then drew a poly with the floor bitmap fill over the "floor" of the rotated symbol, partially overlapping the room floor, too. I placed the poly on a new sheet that was below the FLOOR and SYMBOLS sheets in the sheet list. It hides the line where the wall meets the floor and gives the illusion of continuing down through a tunnel in the wall. It's just smoke and mirrors, but I think it looks really good. Hat off to Tonnichiwa for the suggestion.
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017
     
    Hi guys, yeah, Dogtag is right. The hole is an illusion created by the open trap door being rotated so that it fits against the wall instead of the floor, and of course the symbol is expanded so that it looks like it would be the proper size for a six foot tall human to walk through like a hallway exit.

    As far as the Multiply and the yellow polygon goes, those colors are only going to work with the open trap door symbol. The arch doorway symbol does not have the same colors so the Multiply will make the colors more saturated and it won't tone them down the same. The arch doorway symbol has lighter shades of gray on it and it has no back to it so it is see through. This will affect the way the yellow color will look so I do not suggest you use it if you plan on using the arch doorway in your map.

    It is interesting to see what effect it did create though. I also like Dogtags solution to the wooden floor of the open trap door. And adding the other arch symbols might make the floor look completely wooden if you can position them properly. I will have to try that out some time to see if I can get it to work.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: DogtagThe "hole" is simply the open pit symbol Tonnichiwa used from the CA66 PER3Traps catalog. It's just rotated so it can be placed against the wall instead of the floor.


    I was refering to the octagonal hole of the wrong color I currently have there in the floor of the first room... but I had a correct circular hole in one of my Arcology maps. i couldn't find the symbol. i have the symbol now, and will be replacing the brown hole with a stone hole of the same color as that floor.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017
     
    I do want to make a see through hole out to the outdoors from the cave. But if it involves intense symbol juggling, etc. I probably wont be able to do it.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017
     
    Fixed the floor hole with CA66 Floor Hole 7x5. I'll have to work on the rest later today or on Monday.
      lost_mines01_000044b.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2017
     
    That's a cool pit symbol.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2017
     
    For some reason I cannot find it in the CA66 symbols. No idea why, but knowing me, I probably zoomed past it or something.