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    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017
     
    What's wrong with a CC3 map? Do people think its somehow cheating? Heck, if that's the case, tell 'em to do it all by hand with real-world media! Oi, some people...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017
     
    LOL! Its not really that bad :)

    I have more and more PS mappers voting for me every time I take part.

    I will admit that this time around I've done a hybrid map - a GIMP background with a CC3 foreground, but it is in its basic style a CC3 map, since the GIMP background was inspired by the original CC3 background, using the same CC3 fills to flood each layer, and only different by the way it made use of the facility to be able to draw and shade things without polygons. I could have done it all in CC3, but to produce the variable EFI effects would have taken me several weeks longer than the 1 month we get to do a challenge. I feel it highlights the capabilities of CC3 that you simply cannot do in PS - like globally adjustable roof shading on detailed building symbols, and the use of varicolour symbols. I've not yet heard of a PS or GIMP brush that can pull off that kind of trick :P
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017 edited
     
    There are a number of reasons some people don't like CC3 maps. I've read why on Reddit and on the Cartographer's Guild, and I've even seen some stuff about it on facebook. Maybe even other sites I've visited too.

    Some people think any map made with CC3+ looks too artificial. Some people have said they look too "cartoony". Some people have said they can always tell when a map is made with CC3+ because everything looks like it came from a template instead of being drawn by hand. Other people don't like that it is easy just to put down some Symbols instead of drawing them all out by yourself. Other people have said that its cheating. Some people have said every CC3+ map looks just like any other CC3+ map, so you will never see a CC3+ map that looks like an original piece of work.

    The most weird complaint I heard was from a guy on Reddit that said that CC3+ isn't even worth buying because he said the time it takes to learn CC3+ could have been spent learning how to draw your own unique maps in Gimp or Photoshop. He went on to say that once you have learned to draw in Gimp or Photoshop, you would not be limited on what you can draw, where as with CC3+ you can only draw what you have Symbols for.
    He said he had already bought CC3 but thought he had wasted his money.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: TonnichiwaThere are a number of reasons some people don't like CC3 maps. I've read why on Reddit and on the Cartographer's Guild, and I've even seen some stuff about it on facebook. Maybe even other sites I've visited too.

    Some people think any map made with CC3+ looks too artificial. Some people have said they look too "cartoony". Some people have said they can always tell when a map is made with CC3+ because everything looks like it came from a template instead of being drawn by hand. Other people don't like that it is easy just to put down some Symbols instead of drawing them all out by yourself. Other people have said that its cheating. Some people have said every CC3+ map looks just like any other CC3+ map, so you will never see a CC3+ map that looks like an original piece of work.

    The most weird complaint I heard was from a guy on Reddit that said that CC3+ isn't even worth buying because he said the time it takes to learn CC3+ could have been spent learning how to draw your own unique maps in Gimp or Photoshop. He went on to say that once you have learned to draw in Gimp or Photoshop, you would not be limited on what you can draw, where as with CC3+ you can only draw what you have Symbols for.
    He said he had already bought CC3 but thought he had wasted his money.


    And here's why i don't go on the Guild, or any other site, for that matter. I find it incredibly arrogant to critique someone's work in that manner. Constructive criticisms are always welcome, but when you get on some soapbox about the medium one uses to CREATE - which is really the key word - you are nothing but a judgemental snob, talent or no talent. Unfortunately for some of us, DRAWING does not come easily, and quite frankly i don't think all the drawing classes in the world would get me the ability to create a map like say, a Schley map in CC3.....but would still like to have a creative outlet. It really gets under my skin - those judgy people. bleck.

    That's why i love this forum - CC3(+) users only - who are just here to help each other out, give great, honest and respectful criticisms to each other, and cheer each other on when a great or even not so great map is posted to these boards. I love us here :)

    Ok, stepping down off MY soapbox now. Can't wait to see what you make of this Tony! You should do a tutorial....cause i sure haven't been able to figure Perspectives out yet! It's a bit too "mathematical" for me, i think :) (says the nurse, haha)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017 edited
     
    I find it very amusing when people who can't work out how to use CC3 start to damn it instead. Its just like the bad workman who blames his tools, for they would obviously like to be able to use CC3, or they would never have bought it in the first place.

    Unfortunately this minority make up the hardcore anti CC3 mappers who actively vote against CC3 maps - just because they are angry and frustrated people. Its a sort of vengeance thing with them.

    Fortunately they are only a very small minority. Most of the PS users are perfectly fine about CC3 maps. I've found that if you just show an interest in what they are doing with their maps, they start to get a bit curious about what you are doing with yours, and the fences (if indeed there are any) seem to melt away.

    I have many PS friends at the Guild - as a result of working on the barriers all this time.
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017
     
    Lol, I agree with you Lorelei. It does make me a bit irritated about the one guy who made the comment about drawing it all myself. I was just laughing when I read this because I want my maps to look like Schley maps as well, and there is no way I could draw as well as he does. Schley has spent a lifetime learning how to do that and I don't have that amount of time left in my life to learn that.

    Haha, I agree Sue, I have to chuckle as well when I hear people complain about how hard it is to learn CC3+. I have found it much harder to learn Gimp or Photoshop and I don't get anywhere near as good of a result from those programs as I do with CC3+. If I spent the time learning them I would still need to spend even more time (10+ years at least) in order to be able to learn how to draw the way I want to.

    I don't really have a problem with the people who don't like this program. I just figure if people like what I've made they will look at it. If they don't they won't. No skin off of my back.

    Lorelei, I am going to be doing a tutorial on my Youtube channel on how to make buildings in Perspectives 3. I am actually getting set up to make the video now. It isn't going to be about making dungeons at all, as I will do that in another video. I personally think making buildings and houses in Perspectives 3 is harder than drawing dungeons.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    Re: art snobs - people should just get over themselves and get lives...
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    I've seen complaints of cartoony CC3 maps, and it wasn't drawn with CC3. I think there are lots of people out there who pretend they can draw or know art, and they can do neither.

    I use CC2/CC3/CC3+ because I'm not an artist. My maps are popular, I see anywhere from 300 megs to over a gigabyte of downloads from my sites per month. So there are folks out there who like them. Some months just my Crestar site gets over a gig of maps downloaded.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    Posted By: JimPI use CC2/CC3/CC3+ because I'm not an artist.
    Same here. Drawing just isn't for me, I've been failing at it since elementary school. Without CC (or similar software), I would have been completely lost.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    CC3+ saves a heck of a lot of hand drawing time. Granted, maybe some raster effects are better handled in something like PS or GIMP, but, overall, this is a faster way to accomplish work... :) I can draw and I opt for CC3+ in this case... :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2017
     
    I use CC3, and I treat GIMP as an add on - a useful tool for doing complex blending operations in the background. I call them hybrid maps, but the truth is they are far more CC3 than they are GIMP.
    • CommentAuthorTopdecker
    • CommentTime4 hours ago
     
    I GM online via Fantasy Grounds and view CC3+ as a tool that allows me to quickly produce high quality battlemaps custom tailored for my weekly campaign. I've been cranking out 2-5 maps a week for a while - so much so that my more formal learning of the software has suffered. I had been learning new stuff with every map and now, not so much.

    Anyhow, as for some of the snobbery... I would imagine that the amount of time it takes to hand-draw and color a detailed map is significantly more than using a stamp-like approach that one finds in CC3+.

    For a time, I drew/painted and traded ATCs - art trading cards. There are sites where cards are collected by theme and the hosting person redistributes the art, trying to match effort for effort. I would be lying if I said that I was not completely disappointed if my hand-drawn card was traded into one that had clearly been stamped. Why? Because I regarded my hand-drawn effort as being more personal, more unique and I wanted the same in return.

    Hopefully this explains a bit of the snobbery - undoubtedly many of these cartographers regard their hand-drawn maps as being art while a CC3+ created maps leverages someone else's artistic talents. The solution is to blend your own artistic materials into the resulting output and to use the strength of presentation and organization to push it over the top.

    TIm