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    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Alrighty, this is a new one on me (damn city mapping!). Somehow I've picked up balls of shadows on everything when I turn the effects on! I thought perhaps it was the wall shadows from the trees and buildings, but turning those effects off didn't change anything, and they appear everywhere, anyway. I'll attach an image. The map is large and not supposed to be viewed so closely, anyway, but these things are noticeable even when the image is expanded back to normal. Annnd, to add insult to injury, for some reason CC3+ did not auto save my work, despite the fact that I have the autosave on and it always has, so I ended up losing 5 hours of work. I think the mapping gods conspire against me with city maps! Never have any of these issues with world, overland, floor plans or dungeons.... Damn city maps!!! Sigh....
      shadow balls.jpg
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    An alien attack?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Oh Scott! Congratulations! What you have there is the most spectacular example of what has sometimes been called 'Transparency Acne'

    I find it can be caused by using edge fade inner in combination with bevel, as well as a few other circumstances.

    The only cure I've come up with (and this was for all 8 levels of cliff in my Merelan City map) was to copy the object from the bevelled sheet onto a new sheet directly beneath it, using all the same effects, minus the bevel. I call it a mask sheet. Sometimes the mask sheet doesn't work perfectly, but this can be improved by either increasing or decreasing the brightness using an HSL effect on the mask sheet. That part is down to sheer experimentation.

    Other things that can cause Transparency Acne are a combination of transparent sheets with varying blend modes applied. This also caused me quite a lot of difficulty with Bloodrock - the map of a view down a drain I did a while back now. The TA in that case was being caused by the shadows of underlying objects interfering with a general transparent black sheet of shading above them. All I had to do in the end was knock the black of the shadows and the black of the transparent sheet back by about 10 on Red Green and Blue settings in the shadow effects, and change the colour of the black transparent sheet to about the same value. It still looks like black, but is in fact only a very very dark grey.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    That could be used for interesting overland effects of a meteor bombardment of a space port area.
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      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    To add some technical detail to Sue's explanation. That effect occurs because the color of a pixel on the sheet where the bevel effect is used matches the color of the pixel "below" it, i.e, the resulting pixel from the rendering of all the sheets behind the current one.
    The best way to work around it is to simply insert a polygon with a solid fill and a color guaranteed not to be in the image (pink is usually a good choice) on a sheet right below. if this polygon is the exact same shape as the affected one, it won't be visible (unless there is also some transparency involved). The sheet with this solid filled polygon don't need to have any effects applied to it.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Hm... well, I have no bevel effects on any sheets, so it can't be that.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017 edited
     
    Do you have any transparency sheet effects anywhere in the map?
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Yes, I have transparency effects on some ocean levels.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017 edited
     
    Do the ocean polygons extend under/over the land?

    I'm just fishing around for an explanation as to why the land should also be affected.

    EDIT: also - if you switch the transparency effects off, do you still get the TA craters?
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Ah HA! Mystery solved! There WAS a bevel! Somehow the map border sheet was solid dark gray and had a lighted bevel effect on it...??? Also, explains why the map was suddenly so dark! No idea how that happened, but I deleted the solid dark gray, deleted the bevel effect on the border sheet just to be safe, and my fractal acne is gone! Hadn't even thought to check the border sheet as I'd done nothing with it (I thought), but I finally hit on it turning sheets on and off and trying out combinations. There it was.
      map shot.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    That's great news :)

    However - something seems to have happened with your gravel and your rocks - the resolution of the gravel is certainly much lower and more pixelated than it was before, when you had the Transparency Acne going on.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Yes, I noticed that. It was beautifully clear before. I'll have to check it and see what I can come up with. I may be back with a new question! Damn city maps! I hate 'em! Have NEVER had half the issues with any other mapping with CC3+ than I've had with this project. But I am determined not to let city mapping beat me! LOL!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Looking at the two maps in comparison its like the display speed settings might have been accidentally changed?

    Those are in the drop down menu if you right click the hour glass. Normally they are set on automatic high, but maybe they've ended up on low, or something like that?
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Just checked, and the automatic bmp quality is still on high. I zoomed and took another screen grab and it looks good. Nice and clear, everything. But if I try to zoom in closer than this it becomes pixilated like the other picture. Is there a limit to the degree of clear zoom? If not perhaps it is my system? It does get bogged down sometimes, especially when I have effects on and I'm trying to zoom into a portion of the map. I've been looking at pcs more suited to heavy graphics work than my desktop. I'm an author/editor and I don;t play any games on my pc, so I've never needed a graphics-memory-heavy machine. But the more I use CC3+ the more I realize that I may need to get something faster and more powerful to avoid bogging down and even occasionally crashing.
      map shot 2.jpg
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    ...actually, that pic ISN'T as clear as that first one with the spots, is it? Hm....
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017 edited
     
    You're zoomed in a lot closer with this last shot.

    It looks pretty normal to me now - considering the zoom you must have on it for the pontoon to be so large. You might have to reduce the x,y scaling of the rock texture just the tiniest bit, though, so its only as pixelated as the ocean.

    EDIT: having said that, the ocean is also quite pixelated.

    The best thing to do to see if all is well, is to export it at the size you plan to use it, and see if it looks pixelated on the export at 100%
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Well, I went in and scaled things back and it looks much better. I was going to have to do that with the street cobblestones, anyway, as I was never happy with them being so big. But several of the other fills benefitted from a little scale reduction, too.
      Ashampoo_Snap_2017.05.11_21h13m49s_003_.jpg
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Looking good now. Love to see the whole city up to date so far. I am doing a city too, and finding it just as daunting as you. I need 8000 buildings for a population in excess of 50,000 (many multi-storied apartments). Any advice is welcome.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2017
     
    Advice? Stay sane! This is the southern warehouse and poor district of what I'm working on. It's a New England island community, sort of a cross between Amity Island from Jaws and H.P. Lovecraft. It's a work in progress so is still pretty rough. Eventually, there'll be a fog hanging over most of this area. Also, there'll be more sunken ships on the rocks. The northern portion is the business district as well as where the nicer neighborhoods are, as well as a small university. It's not wholly my own work -- I came up with most of the city, but someone else rendered the basic contour of the island and street layout of the place, so I have to work with that.
      south.jpg
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    What fill did you use for the rocky shore (the one that was so pixelated earlier_. I could really use that. Hope you don't mind sharing notes. My city is for the Community Atlas, Stromphe, and is a Greek/Mediterranean/Mid-East type city
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    Looks like one of the Bogie cliff fills to me, but I might be wrong :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    Ta
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    Indeed it is. It's the cliffs fill from the Bogie collection.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    Though I use a lot of Bogie fills myself in city mapping, I always have to remember that there is no VH resolution bitmap for any of them, so the moment you add one to a CC3 map you are very slightly handicapped in terms of producing very close zoomed in renders - unless you don't mind things getting a bit pixelated.

    Its one of the reasons I started making my own fills - though of course I can't use them in my Profantasy Atlas city ;)
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    Agreed. This is the first map I've used them on, although I have always admired them.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017 edited
     
    When you reduce the scale of a pixelated fill to compensate for that problem it suddenly starts to develop a lot of redundancy. That's where a repeating pattern becomes obvious.

    There's a lot of redundancy in a couple of the Bogie fills I used in Merelan City, but there is a way of coping with them.

    Do the whole shape of that fill in just the one polygon first, then add smaller patches of the same fill on a sheet above that one, but with an edge fade inner effect on it so that it seamlessly blends the patches into the main polygon. The idea is to hand draw small irregular patches and place them in such a way that they cover small bits of the most obvious repeats to break up the pattern with itself. The difficulty lies in managing not to create a new repeating pattern by placing the patches too regularly.

    That's not a very good explanation, and it can either be easy, or really difficult to achieve, depending on the scale of the fill and how much redundancy you have. I remember a while back that I helped someone make an entire grass background fill for a battle map using just the DD3 grass fills at a scale where redundancy was more than just a little obvious, but I can't remember the details to be able to find the thread to show you, and I always delete borrowed FCW files since they aren't mine to keep - other than the Atlas ones, that is.

    EDIT: The other problem with doing it this way is that all those tiny patches tend to interfere with other things, like placing houses, or trying to select symbols later on, so I usually finish the polygon and its patches, the place them all on a layer of their own - one which can be frozen so that I don't keep accidentally picking up the patches when I'm trying to move or delete other stuff. A layer can also be hidden when placing houses of course ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    Posted By: Loopysuethough of course I can't use them in my Profantasy Atlas city
    Well, as long as you made them yourself and are willing to let them be distributed, custom fills doesn't really differ from custom symbols.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2017
     
    Ooooooh, Remy :D :D :D

    That's suddenly opened up all kinds of possibilities for Sanctuary - and of course for anyone else who wants to use the fills I use in other maps of their own as well as the Atlas maps :D

    Thank you :D

    Incidentally all the fills I create for myself are made using Genetica, for which I hold a Basic licence. The terms of use are such that the textures I export are mine, so if I want to give you textures you can use them in the same way you would use any other Profantasy texture - in CC3 maps, or even in maps and graphics created in other software like GIMP, with no limitations on whether the resulting map is for private or commercial use.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017 edited
     
    I agree about the repetition in most of the fills which is why I usually avoided them, but some are just so nice. Some, like a lot of the water ones, the repetition isn't that noticeable unless you really scale out, but others are very obvious no matter at what scale you use them. I love the idea of breaking that up with random poly shapes of the fill on another sheet above. Very, very clever! The neat and helpful things I learn here every day!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017
     
    I can't claim credit for that one. It's a really quite an old idea. I've no idea, in fact, where it came from. I think I got it from a YouTube video about something else entirely, and the technique probably wasn't original even then ;)