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    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017 edited
     
    Greets all,

    Here's what I've been working on for awhile now. As you can see, though I've been trained as a typographer, I'm having issues with text label placement, style, color, etc. Very frustrating as I'm coming to discover that advertising design typography doesn't necessarily mean you know how to place/utilize text on a map.

    Here's my scheme:

    Nation names in white, bold, dropshadow
    City names in beige, normal, dropshadow
    Terrain features: yellow green, normal, dropshadow
    Strange features: purple and as above
    Gates: blue and as above

    Unfortunately, even after enhancing in various paint progs, I can't get a high resolution png unless I pull out enlarged areas and post those. So, I'm going to try and include the FCW here as well.
    Advice of all sorts will be very much appreciated :)

    Cal
      HARFOR1a.png
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017
     
    And the FCW
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017
     
    I'm no expert in typography, just wanted to say this is a lovely map. :)

    "Vog Muir?" That's the name of a very early Rolemaster setting. Is that island chain based off the module?
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017
     
    Posted By: BarlimanI'm no expert in typography, just wanted to say this is a lovely map. :)

    "Vog Muir?" That's the name of a very early Rolemaster setting. Is that island chain based off the module?


    Yes, indeed. Although I adapted it: Vog Mur was the original. Basically, I have my own history and stories for this world which I call Archandus.
    I use names I've got particularly strong memories about, like Arvon and High Hallack; some of the others are manipulated from Quenya or names in fantasy stories I really like.
    I'm running it on a MUSH but using Skype for the players who are challenge by typing as fast as I can heh.
    When necessary, I just load a section of the map previous rendered out into skype and everyone can view it.

    Thanks for the compliment. It looks so much better without the labels or with labels but enlarged heh.


    I'm looking at all the wonderful work done on here by you brilliant mappers, especially those done in the Community Atlas, for inspiration :)


    Cal
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017
     
    That is indeed an attractive land :)

    About the resolution, Calibre...

    The resolution can be greatly increased by clicking the options button in the bottom of the save as dialogue box when you export it.

    I'm sure that as a trained Typographer you understand all about pixels and antialiasing. The only thing you have to be careful of is that you don't go over about 10,000 pixels on the longest side of the exported map.

    You can get even better results if you use one of the two Save as Rectangular... options. This allows you to select the rectangle you want to export, and will work beautifully to cut out any wasted space around the edges if you remember to use the options dialogue to tell CC3 that you want to render a rectangle of those proportions.

    For example, if your map has proportions of 1:2, when you Save as Rectangular... you can set the dimensions of the rectangle to be exported to 5000 and 10,000.

    I'm known for my slightly eccentric explanations, so please just shout if I'm talking garbage :D
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017
     
    Thank you all.

    Loopysue, I appreciate your instructions. Yes I do know how to do that.
    What I really need help on is text/labelling. Right now, I can't stand the text heh. It's driving me insane to even look at this. :S

    PS: thank you for complimenting my artwork.

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017
     
    If you go to Edit on the menu and choose Edit Text, then click on a label you can edit everything from font, to size and alignment.

    The effects like shadows and glows can be found on the TEXT sheet, and adjusted by either deleting them, or clicking the EDIT button next to the effects list.

    Curved text can be achieved by drawing an arc or a smooth line along the curve you desire on your map, and then adding text to it using the Draw/text along line menu.

    Not sure if that was what you were after?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2017
     
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017
     
    Ok, here I go again:

    1: Changed the Font sizes, removed drop shadow and altered the text outlines.

    I chose red for the nation labels though I experimented with various greens and black.
    I removed the labels for mountain ranges. Researching on this forum showed majority of you
    guys on maps of this scale don't normally apply mountain range labels (could be wrong here).


    Also, I realize I'm borrowing a lot of the names on the map; some of them I've constructed, as I said above,
    from Quenya (such as Noldomar: 'land of the Noldor' which are a tribe of High Elves, etc). Some of the
    names come from favorite fantasy novels I've read over the years, and so on. But the background story,
    theme, histories for this world are my own. Why didn't I just create my own names as well? Because I like
    the names and this map is never intended for any sort of publication: it's for my private RoleMaster game
    I run on my MUSH. My players are certainly aware of my plagiarizing of my favorite authors heh.

    Here are my questions:

    How's the red outline working?
    Should I reduce the size of the nation labels?
    I've used 2 celtic type fonts...do they work ok together?
    What about text color for the city/area names?
    I'd like any advice about the text labelling you guys feel like sharing as I value your opinions greatly :)

    thanks
    Cal
      harnorthf.PNG
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017 edited
     
    Here is a cutout/blowup of one area for comparison and so on. Based on this, I removed the label for mountains and chose the larger size and font.
      AglarV1.PNG
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017 edited
     
    It is a pity you left off the range names for the bigger ranges - try text along a curve, also for the biggest rivers.
    Otherwise I like it, and the names really rock :)
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017
     
    Great map...not a fan of the red outline, though, making the text a bit hard to read. But...then again, it could be my old eyes :) Otherwise, I really like what you've done here :)
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017
     
    The red outlines work fine for me, but, for the mountain range names, I'd consider leaving them on for the bigger ranges. My only problem lies with what feels like a bit of crowding: multiple labels so close to each other that I (in this case) find it a bit distracting. For example, the labels between and including Celune and Aglarion make the map seem a bit jumbled to me. I might experiement with putting certain types of labels --natural feature labels, for example-- on separate sheets that could be hidden or displayed as needed.

    Overall, however, I love this map.
    • CommentAuthorkevbeck43
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017 edited
     
    Very nice map. I am impressed. Thank you for uploading the FCW as well! I have many of the annuals and this popped right up. Its cool to see how other people do things!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017
     
    Yep. Text along a curve for the mountain ranges - anywhere where you have diagonal text in fact.

    The red outline? Hmmm.... I can't decide. Its definitely different, but I have a feeling it might look better in dark brown (if you don't like black)?

    I've never been keen on coloured text, but that's only my personal taste speaking out. I would probably be outnumbered by the people who like coloured text ;)

    Overall this is a huge improvement on the original :)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2017
     
    Great map, well thought-out, nice, very interesting coastlines and many places to-be-explored. Your group should have tons of fun!

    I'm not a fan of the red outline either. You might try something a little less stark and perhaps something to create a little opacity behind each name to help them stand out without being too strong. :) Just my opinion though.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2017
     
    I quite like the red outlining. However, you might try it with the letters in a cream colour rather than white, as that can be enough to soften it sufficiently, if it feels like there's a problem with it.
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Based on your suggestions, still working on this.

    I'm fighting my basic typography training:

    1: I used more than 1 serif font and did not use a sans serif font. Normally, you're supposed to pick a serif font that evokes the theme/mood/intent of your design, then pick a sans serif font to compliment. These days, however, all the old rules are usually ignored for special effect, reach a younger target group, etc.
    2: I used more than 3 colors for type----really bad heh. My instructors would be fuming. But, as above, nowadays, it's all about grabbing attention.
    3: Less = More; starting to get text heavy :S

    I replaced red outline with brown. All text you see off typical alignment is text on a curve, even angled text.

    thanks
    Cal
      HarrondorForumNew.PNG
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Hmm, trying again. What's up with the forums today?
      harrondorforumnew2.PNG
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: kevbeck43Very nice map. I am impressed. Thank you for uploading the FCW as well! I have many of the annuals and this popped right up. Its cool to see how other people do things!



    You're quite welcome. Thanks for the compliment. I haven't got any annuals yet, I can't decide! :)

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: QuentenIt is a pity you left off the range names for the bigger ranges - try text along a curve, also for the biggest rivers.
    Otherwise I like it, and the names really rock :)



    Thanks, Quenten.

    I'm slowly putting mountain and river names in. Maybe I'll break down and put this on a site somewhere so a larger/clearer version can be seen heh.

    I fight a battle in my mind every time I put a label on this map heh. I was trained in graphic arts/advertising design and well, I'm a traditional artist as well---though I'm NOT working in my field at all these days. But I still remember most of my training.
    Typography was one of my favorite areas of study! But, it's been so long and all the old rules seem to have changed these days heh.

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: BarlimanThe red outlines work fine for me, but, for the mountain range names, I'd consider leaving them on for the bigger ranges. My only problem lies with what feels like a bit of crowding: multiple labels so close to each other that I (in this case) find it a bit distracting. For example, the labels between and including Celune and Aglarion make the map seem a bit jumbled to me. I might experiement with putting certain types of labels --natural feature labels, for example-- on separate sheets that could be hidden or displayed as needed.

    Overall, however, I love this map.



    Thanks. Yes, text heavy. I've resized all text so many times I see the labels with my eyes closed. Working on it. :)

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: LoopysueYep. Text along a curve for the mountain ranges - anywhere where you have diagonal text in fact.

    The red outline? Hmmm.... I can't decide. Its definitely different, but I have a feeling it might look better in dark brown (if you don't like black)?

    I've never been keen on coloured text, but that's only my personal taste speaking out. I would probably be outnumbered by the people who like coloured text ;)

    Overall this is a huge improvement on the original :)



    Thanks! High praise indeed. I've taken your suggestions to heart :)

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: LoreleiGreat map...not a fan of the red outline, though, making the text a bit hard to read. But...then again, it could be my old eyes :) Otherwise, I really like what you've done here :)



    Gotcha. Yeah, it was starting to hurt my eyes as well. I reverted to brown :P

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: WyvernI quite like the red outlining. However, you might try it with the letters in a cream colour rather than white, as that can be enough to soften it sufficiently, if it feels like there's a problem with it.



    How do you think the brown + white is working?

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Oh i like this version much better! It's pleasing to the eyes, for sure. Top notch job on this!
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Very nice map.
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Thanks all. Still working on it.

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    I can't see the last two images, Calibre :(

    EDIT: I can see them now. For some reason this thread is taking a very very long time to load. It was nearly 10 minutes before I could see the last two maps, but now I can - Excellent.

    I think they are tons better, even though you have had to reduce them significantly to upload them, and the smallest text is just a bit too tiny for me to read. I can still imagine what the full sized image looks like :)
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Thanks, Loopysue

    Yeah, it's hard to show it. Guess I better put it on a site somewhere.

    Cal
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Maybe if you uploaded jpg instead of png images it would work faster?
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Honestly, I preferred the red outlining. The brown looks a little too "ordinary" to me. But that's probably just me!

    Can appreciate the difficulties in setting aside your training. Maps, especially those used for gaming, do sometimes need alternative thinking though - places may need labelling in specific colours for clarity, for example, and font styles may have to fit within an overarching document style, if you're trying to link with published products sometimes (even when for private use, if, like me, you're an awkward sort...).
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime17 hours ago edited
     
    Ok, final version. Now all I need to do is write out the backstory. Thanks so much for all the help, guys.


    One weirdness I'm noting: when I try to render out rectangular PNGs from this map, no matter where I draw the selection lines, it ignores that and selects larger rectangle areas. Probably something I've done with the border. I erased it somehow :P


    Anyway, I hope everyone likes it.

    Cal

    PS: I had to draw the navigation lines myself. Couldn't find one in my catalogs except for the Sarah Wroot (SP?) one, but that was purple and it wouldn't allow me to change the color :P
      harforumfinal.PNG
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime17 hours ago
     
    I also draw my own navigation lines. Tip from Monsen: make the lines a width greater than 0.0, say 0.01, so they show up well in your hi-res PNG.
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime16 hours ago
     
    Thanks, Quenten. Will do :)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTime15 hours ago
     
    Do you have 'crop image to aspect ratio' in the options lower right of the Save As window ? This shows up only when you select a graphic output. If you just change the filename to a different one, file01.fcw to file02.fcw, then the option button doesn't show the 'aspect ratio' selection.
  1.  
    I love this map! You've done a great job with making the coastlines look realistic and the way you have made the colors look is fantastic. I also like the sound of the names and your labelling is done well. Great Job!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime11 hours ago
     
    Hey! Curly Text! I love it :D

    A real beauty of a map ;)

    About the rectangular section export thing:

    Have you checked that the proportions of the export you set up in the options dialogue match the proportions of the map?

    For example - if your map is twice as wide as it is tall, then the proportions would be width 2 : height 1, which you could express in pixels of any number in the options box, as long as the width is always 2 x the height (2000:1000, 10000:5000 etc)

    If its not the same proportion, then CC3 will add the extra onto the rectangle you select, so that you will always have a white border at one end or at the top or bottom.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime9 hours ago edited
     
    Posted By: LoopysueIf its not the same proportion, then CC3 will add the extra onto the rectangle you select, so that you will always have a white border at one end or at the top or bottom.
    This is what the setting JimP mentioned, crop image to aspect ratio, is for. It will ensure that only the area selected is exported, without having to calculate the ratios exactly for the export (Which is difficult if you do a freehand rectangular section)
  2.  
    This is really awesome I absolutely love it.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTime7 hours ago
     
    Posted By: Monsen
    Posted By: LoopysueIf its not the same proportion, then CC3 will add the extra onto the rectangle you select, so that you will always have a white border at one end or at the top or bottom.
    This is what the setting JimP mentioned, crop image to aspect ratio, is for. It will ensure that only the area selected is exported, without having to calculate the ratios exactly for the export (Which is difficult if you do a freehand rectangular section)


    Ah ha...

    There you go, Calibre - we both learned something new :)

    Thanks Remy :D
    • CommentAuthorCalibre
    • CommentTime3 hours ago
     
    Great, thanks JimP, Monsen and Loopysue for the answer. I'll check it out asap.

    Thanks pixelkitteh and Tonnichiwa, it's been a lot of work, vision, revision, etc. Just need to tweak a few forests, I think heh.

    Now, onward! to Fenlon regional maps of this map muhahahahah :)

    Cal