Community Atlas - Artemisia - Stromphe City

[Deleted User] · April 2017

Here is the 'big city' map of Stromphe, the very mercantile chief city of the Irisian City States - rather like Athens before the Pelopennesian wars. And of course, the thieves in the title refers to the canny merchants themselves - originally an epithet of derision, but later taken with pride by the merchants as an accolade of their bargaining skills.
This map is just the beginning, wanting to get the layout of the terrain right first. Rocks etc, along the shore will follow. Any sage advice would be welcome, especially from all you city-creator experts, esp Hadrian, Ladystorm and Lorelei and others. By chipping in, the map will be better than I alone could make it.

HadrianVI · April 2017

Very nice start. I like the cliffs you have made. Unfortunately they are not that well visible. Have you considered to make them a bit wider?

As a general suggestion for larger city maps: try to do one district at a time and only move ahead when you are satisfied with the district. (I have not done this on my Vyrn map and that was a mistake)

[Deleted User] · April 2017

Good tip re the districts. I don't want to make the cliffs wider as they would then be really out of scale with the map. But I open to be convinced otherwise.

HadrianVI · April 2017

Re cliffs: That is a fair point. I won't try to convince you otherwise.

JimP · April 2017

Here is an idea I used for large cities, districts in color then I made a number of hexagonal maps as Dtillan Orsti area: geomorphs

[Deleted User] · April 2017

I certainly intended to draw different colour polygons for each district, as an overlay (and an aid to me). No hexagons though. But thanks for your advice Jim - consider it half taken

[Deleted User] · April 2017

Just looked at your Dtillan site, Jim. I do really like the geomorph idea, and may steal that idea from you. Ta

JimP · April 2017

Go right ahead. I got it from some game aids about 1981.

[Deleted User] · April 2017

I redid the map terrain, as below.
However, when I zoom in, the cobble city background (no effects) seems to shrink away from the 'cliff edge'. This also happens with the city background for the upper hill. The effects on the lower hill are Bevel lighted, Bevel size 10, intensity 25,Lightness Base 50, Lightness Range 50, Smoothing 1, Slope Curve 2, Global Sun on, Map Units used. Can any of you experts on Bevel lighted help here - it seems to change as you zoom in and out.

[Deleted User] · April 2017

Seem to have fixed it by increasing bevel edge to 100!

HadrianVI · April 2017

Great job, Quenten! Very nice work on covering up the redundant slopes.

Regarding the moving lighted bevel effects: I have noticed this too, but have not yet found away to avoid it. This is especially annoying when working with several different sheets with a lighted bevel effect. In your case, increasing the bevel size should do the job, since you cover up the top anyway. But you seem to have already found the solution.

Anyway, great job!

[Deleted User] · May 2017

Here is an update of Stromphe, with the major roads in place, and detail of one of the islands - sort of like a Venice (but smaller). The really rich live in palazzi here (must look up the Greek words for palaces and mansions). Apart from the major roads, the streets will really be the background between the houses, though I will use roads as a guide, then delete them Please feel free to help - esp re the swampy area surrounding the islands. And yes, it may be really ritzy on the island, but, like Venice, it stinks especially in summer!

HadrianVI · May 2017

Very nice work.

I have some thoughts on the cobblestone Island, but I will have to share them later because I'm at work.

Monsen · May 2017

I noticed that the seam where you started/ended the city wall is very noticeable. You can get this much less noticeable if you start/end the wall at the middle of a straight stretch of wall instead of at a corner (this also applies to rooms and all other enclosed spaces). Furthermore, if you use a construction entity, you can use modifiers like endpoint to ensure that the wall starts and ends at the exact same point and same angle of both ends, making them merge seamlessly.
Other option is to put a gatehouse or tower here.

I see how you put cobblestone in the background instead of drawing roads, but this also makes the place look a bit over-cobbled imho. Of course, with houses in place, it is mostly an issue when you do close zooms.

[Deleted User] · May 2017

I take your point about the cobblestone - it will only be for the islands. The seams in the wall I haven't worried about since I intend to put towers and gates where they are (among other places).
Do you have any suggestions for the background other than stone and cobblestone (which I like actually, but I appreciate other points of view - that is what makes a map better)

Monsen · May 2017

Personally, I prefer dirt backgrounds for cities. Historically, even if streets where paved, it was only the street, not every inch of open space. But dirt streets were quite common in medieval times.
Of course, a fantasy city is not a medieval city (nor is every medieval city alike either), but since most fantasy RPG's are set in a medieval time period, I've always liked keep as much as the medieval element and feeling as possible. But that does come down to personal preference of course. (For example, I hate high-magic worlds, where magic is the solution to everything. So even if magic exists in my world, it would never bee used for mundane things like building and maintenance, resulting in cities being built and maintained the same way as true medieval ones)

HadrianVI · May 2017

Posted By: Monsen(For example, I hate high-magic worlds, where magic is the solution to everything. So even if magic exists in my world, it would never bee used for mundane things like building and maintenance, resulting in cities being built and maintained the same way as true medieval ones)

I totally agree with you on this one.

[Deleted User] · May 2017

I take your point, and it is what I have in mind for the great majority of the city - apart from the paved main streets (already in), the 'roads' will be guidelines for me, then after the houses are placed, I will erase them. So the background is quite important - I don't really like the plain dirt fills with most of the city styles - can you think of ones that are more interesting but still in the CC3+ canon? The cobblestone fills I am using for the ritzy areas (plus a paved fill if I can find one).
And we have magic now - the telephone, esp cell phones, computers, TV, radio, quantum mechanics - and we use them in everyday life. So while I agree with you about high-magic worlds, if it existed, I feel it would be inevitable that it would be used for everything - look how the motor car and telephone took a while to catch on, but who would be without either now? So in conclusion, a high-tech world (like ours) and a high-magic world would be indistinguishable, except for the means of carrying out various functions. But that said, I do prefer a VERY low magic world.

Monsen · May 2017

Posted By: QuentenAnd we have magic now - the telephone, esp cell phones, computers, TV, radio, quantum mechanics - and we use them in everyday life. So while I agree with you about high-magic worlds, if it existed, I feel it would be inevitable that it would be used for everything - look how the motor car and telephone took a while to catch on, but who would be without either now? So in conclusion, a high-tech world (like ours) and a high-magic world would be indistinguishable, except for the means of carrying out various functions. But that said, I do prefer a VERY low magic world.

I see your point, but I think all of this hinges very much on the definition of magic in your world. For example, can it be learned by anyone, or do one need special aptitude for it? Is it easy or difficult to use, and what refinements are possible? The reasons we all have computers in our pockets today is because the technology have proven to be easy to refine, making it both smaller and cheaper. Is the same thing possible with magic at all? In my world, the answer to that is no. Magic is difficult to learn and use, is limited to very few individuals, and it isn't possible to refine. Some variations are possible, not all casters cast the same spell the same way, but it is still equally difficult. In my campaign, this has lead to wizards being quite rare, and especially high-level wizards are extremely difficult to find. But in another campaign, these underlying rules may be quite different. If magic is as refineable as technology, then I agree, it would quickly come into common use. This is down to the type of campaign you like to play (or story you like to read).

For the dirt fills, I usually combine several of them, using edge fading and transparency effects to blend them together to make them more interesting.

Dogtag · May 2017

HadrianVI quoted Monsen, who wrote:
Monsen:(For example, I hate high-magic worlds, where magic is the solution to everything. So even if magic exists in my world, it would never bee used for mundane things like building and maintenance, resulting in cities being built and maintained the same way as true medieval ones)
and then HadrianVI added:I totally agree with you on this one.

+1

[Deleted User] · May 2017

I agree with your dislike of magic-high 'worlds', but to a medieval person, we live in such a world. In my campaign, magic is called etherics, and comes from an innate ability to directly electromagnetic forces, from radio waves to Xrays. Only some have this to any degree - rather like the intelligence Bell curve, but unfortunately, you can have cretins with high etheric potential, and geniuses with hardly none. furthermore, women are FAR more likely to have it than men, leading to a matriarchal world as our patriarchal world was in the 60's. And it takes training to master it, and it is highly policed - nearly all work for the government, and are given high status. Anyway, that is the premise behind magic in Myirandios, about which i am writing a novel (slowly). And etherics is very much NOT for mundane things - the practitioners ar uncommon, and the use is very physically demanding (and far more so for men).
On another note, thanks for your suggestion, Monsen - I will try that.

HadrianVI · May 2017

So, here are my thoughts on the cobblestone island. If you wanted to create the impression that the island is on a wall above the sea level, try this: make a new sheet. Copy the cobblestone background to the new sheet. Hide alk but the new sheet, then use the modify tool on it. Change fill style to hollow and line with to some apropriate value (maybe 1/10 of the road width). Use the modify tool again and change the fill style to whatever you like (cobblestone ect).
For effects I'd suggest a slight bevel effect.

[Deleted User] · May 2017

Here is an update, with details of the islands and the Acropolis. Don't worry about the background yet, I have not really worked on it, but i am glad for your advice about it.

[Deleted User] · May 2017

I also realize that I have to rotate the temples 180 degrees to get the shadows right

Lorelei · May 2017

Nice!!!

HadrianVI · May 2017

Very nice work Quenten. Can't wait to see the progress.

[Deleted User] · May 2017

I can't seem to get the shadows right for the roofs of the temples, nor any other building made with the house tool. Even when I change Global sun, or rotate the house, it still keeps the shadows in the opposite direction to where it should be with the global sun, regardless as to whether it is a simple default house or my temples. HELP!

Monsen · May 2017

You can use the FLIPSHADING command to flip the shading of all the houses made with the house tool. Do note that it only applies to buildings already in the map, so don't draw some, then do FLIPSHADING, then draw some more, unless you enjoy inconsistency. You'll probably wish to use this command once the city is done (But you can do testing by issuing it, then issuing it again to go back to the wrong setting while you still work)

[Deleted User] · May 2017

Great, thanks Monsen. And on testing it worked, than back again. Brilliant

Loopysue · May 2017

That one caught me out several times in the early stages of doing my Guild City work, but the extra range of houses you can create is well worth the trouble. I've already created loads of new styles, but I will have to modify them again to make use of only CC3 fills!

This is coming on very nicely, Quenten

[Deleted User] · May 2017

I am aiming to put in all the buildings first, then trees, statues etc as I do each district, and finally the background - funny way to do it, I suppose, but the buildings will give me an idea of what background i want. Oh, and I'm working on the cliffs and marshes as well.
I'll take a few days break from Stromphe, and get into the Drunken Sailor Inn at Helinesa - doing something different often helps me get my ideas about the first task clearer! :D

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Community Atlas - Artemisia - Stromphe City

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