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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2017
     
    I thought I would map out a village before undertaking the larger task of a city (Stromphe) - though I have almost finished the geography of it.
    So here is the beginning of Helinesa, in the NE of Spiros Isle. PLEASE HELP with your advice and criticism. Encouragement is nice, but the map will be better for your critique/advice.
      Helinesa.JPG
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2017
     
    I like your layout. It looks very nice so far. What style are you using? Is it one of the bitmap styles or is it Jon Roberts Cities?

    If you want some advice for the further development, here are a few things:

    -For the shore (beach or rocks), I usually use two sheets: One without edge fade effects and one with an edge fade inner effect that is put on top of the other one. This way the fill nicely covers the coastline but also blends in with the lands.

    -In my not so extensive experience, the scale of the textures can be quite an issue with cities. If they are scaled too large, they look pixelated in close view, but if they are scaled too small, they look repetitive in full view. Especially for the background fills it is therefore important to use as a high resolution as you can get. Don't hesitate to use fills from overland styles, if you have large open spaces.

    -You seems to use a slight bevel effects on the road, which is very nice, especially at the coast. However, in my experience an inverted bevel effect looks even a bit nicer. But this could lead to issues at the coast, since you don't want to create the impression, that the sea level is higher than the road. This can be avoided by using different sheets. I use a bevel effect on the docks sheet, then an edge fade inner (or no effect at all, if it is only used between two sheets with the same fill) on the blend sheet and an inverted bevel on the roads sheet.

    -Also, on dirt roads I sometimes use two sheets, one with the inverted bevel and one with a slight blur either on top of it or below it. If I put the blurred sheet on top of the other, I also add a transparency effect. If the blurred road is put on top of the ordinary street sheet, the same sheet can also be used to draw dirt onto paved roads, as it would naturally occur if people walk from dirt roads onto paved ones with dirt still clinging to their boots ect.

    -Also, cobblestone fills can be quite tricky to work with, especially on larger scale, because they sometimes don't render nicely, if scaled too small. But in order to make it look realistic, it is sometimes necessary to scale it rather small. Because of this, I mostly use dust roads instead of paved ones, especially with the Jon Roberts City style.
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2017
     
    I am using primarily the CD3+ Bitmap A. BUT... I am also using tree symbols from Mike Schley's dungeon, and no doubt will use other symbols. I am trying to stick to the main CC3+ without recourse to the Annuals or CSUAC etc, as I want everyone who owns CC3+ to see it at the FCW level without having to buy other stuff, That said, I will nearly certainly go foe some of the annuals and Vintyri for Stromphe City.
    Thank you so much for your detailed advice - it is so appreciated, and will be heeded. One question, why not put he blur on the same sheet as the bevel? can you show me an example? Also, I do prefer the bevel, rather than the inverted bevel, but I will give your suggestions a go and see how they work out.
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2017
     
    I too only use official Profantasy content. I anyway only own CC3+, CD3+ and the Annuals 2,3,5,6, therefore my choice is quite limited, but I certainly do use the annuals.:) Aren't the Mike Schley's Dungeon Symbols part of a Symbol Set expansion?

    Regarding the Roads: In my experience the bevel effect does not work well with blur or edge fade inner, if the bevel size is rather small. Therefore I avoid using them on the same sheet. Also, it is of course perfectly fine to have different preferences regarding the bevel effect on roads. If you prefer bevel instead of inverted bevel, there is no need to try out my suggestion. I think I can see what kind of road you have in mind, that would be better represented by a bevel effect than a slighted bevel. Some time ago, the dirt road in the forest besides the village where my parents live, was fixed. They just put new gravel on top of the existing road and rolled it down. When thinking of it now, it actually exactly looked like a road with a bevel effect on it.:)
    But there was also this old dirt road that really had dug itself into the surrounding lands, as if someone used an inverted bevel effect on it.:)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2017
     
    I like your start!

    I would fractalise the coastline a bit more - too many "straight" sections... :D
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2017
     
    Not much I can add at this early stage that hasn't already been mentioned, but for the map scale, aside from giving a more "wiggly" coastline, I'd also suggest adding some "texturing" to the coast itself - adding areas with (as appropriate to the general setting) beaches, cliffs, areas of flat rocks, small islets/large rocks in the sea, and so forth. Worth taking a look at some of the Google Earth satellite images if you need further inspiration. Not suggesting the same level of detail, you understand, but enough to give an impression of a typical coast, maybe even with a secluded bay for the smugglers to take advantage of...
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2017
     
    An early update. Yet to do the things suggested- which i agree with Thanks for all the tips, people!
      Helinesa2.JPG
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2017
     
    Thought that was a building in the woods, but I see it's really the compass rose instead on a proper inspection! Maybe swap it to the sea corner opposite?

    For the village, it may be worth making one of the harbour-access roads wider than any are presently, given there's often a need to move wide wagon-loads to and from the sea (timber for boat repairs, boxes of fish, stacks of lobster-pots, etc.), and even to get small craft through to launch and recover them - depending on the nature of the harbour, naturally.
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2017
     
    Looks very nice! I love the pillars of the piers. It's a very nice detail.
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2017
     
    I will definitely do your suggestion, Wyvern. Thanks for it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2017
     
    Here is my latest update - added rocks and coastal low vegetation, a lighthouse, lumber around the mill, and a crone's place, along with a legend. Just fields, and drawing some lobster pots and crates, and finally wagon marks, Anyone know of a decent wagon/cart in the standard CC3+, CD3_, DD3+ or SS1,2,3,4. I am trying to stick to a basic CC3_ install, with no annuals or CSUAC/Vintyri/dundjinni, as many will not have these (even though the last 3 are free). Oh, and any small boats
      Helinesa3.JPG
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2017
     
    Quenten:

    * CD3 Vector (Classic and Shaded) has some small boats and carts; at this scale and with a slight blur effect, you might get away with those here, but I'm not sure. The boats are under "Miscellaneous", the carts under "Vehicles/Roads".

    * CD3 Bitmap B has a selection of hand-drawn carts wagons, chariots, horses, etc. (under "Vehicles").

    * The SS2 pack has a rowboat with and without oars (Bitmap A, under "Cave").

    I don't yet have SS3 or 4 installed however. CC3+ and SS1 don't have any top-down symbols like these, as far as I recall.
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2017
     
    Wyvern, thank you so much. You have been very helpful throughout my first effort at drawing a proper village.
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2017 edited
     
    That looks very beautiful. Great job!

    Just a detail: Since the top of the lighthouse is not made out of glass, the light would be obstructed in some parts. But I am not sure how this could be done, if you want to stick to the circular light entity. I think Monsen has a turtorial on complex shapes, which has a description on how to cut out parts of shapes.
    Also, I'd suggest to make the entity larger and add a really strong edge fade inner effect.
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2017
     
    I won't worry about the glass effect, but will take your advice on the edge fade inner effect, and enlarge it (I presume you mean the light)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2017
     
    Well, here is the final map, with much thanks to wyvern and Hadrian for their very helpful advice - they can claim credit for the good parts (I'll take the blame for the rest :) ). I am writing up the Map notes now. Unless there are other critiques (and don't hold back), I will submit this to Monsen in 24 hours.
      Helinesa4.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2017
     
    Excellent work on this Quenten! I love the detail of the wagon ruts! And the rocks on the shore are wonderful! Only thing i would do is make the font a bit smaller on the scale, as The Church of Spriros seems to be hanging off the end there :)
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2017
     
    Done, thanks Lorelei. Also fixed the sandbars and lighthouse light.
      Helinesa5.JPG
    • CommentAuthorwarhound
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2017
     
    One of the details that I really like is the coastline with all of the rocks, etc...on the edge rather than it being just the end of the land. Very nice!
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2017
     
    Lovely work indeed, Quenten. Amazing to follow how it's grown in less than a week!

    Maybe add a shadow for the two larger ships? The docked one may need moving to a higher sheet than the quay, or it won't throw shade on the quay properly (given its sails are raised).
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeApr 16th 2017
     
    Great work, Quenten! I love all the details, especially the dirt tracks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime7 days ago edited
     
    I have incorporated Wyvern's suggestion about the boats. I have sent the map and Map notes to Monsen. Hopefully, they will be in the atlas shortly.
    I would like to publicly thank the Forum community, and especially HadrianVI, Wyvern, Lorelei and JMunsenII for all the helpful advice and general encouragement. This was my first village brought to completin - thank you.
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      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTime7 days ago edited
     
    This is fantastic, Quenten. It's just asking for a visit from some PCs. I, too, really (really, really) like the rocks along the shoreline and the wagon ruts. The lighthouse is nifty. I like that you added a nice glow around it, even in daylight.

    If I could make one suggestion at all, it might be to add just a touch of blur to some of the symbols (which would probably require a separate sheet), such as the top 3 boats and the bottom 3 wagons, and maybe the boat and wagon(?) by the lighthouse. They just seem kind of sharp or "extra contrast-y" to me. That said, I must repeat that I think this map is brilliant and adventure-ready!

    Did I mention how cool the rocks and wheel ruts were? I did? Good.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTime7 days ago edited
     
    Incidentally, having the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker all in a row is inspired. :-D

    ~Dogtag
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime7 days ago edited
     
    This map is now available in the atlas. Thanks for the contribution Quenten.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    I had already put a blur on those symbols. I found that if i increased it much more, they looked strange close up. Anyway, the die is cast and it's in the atlas now. (so there! :D )
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    And one of the ships had sailed to the edge of the map, bounced off the border, and was coming back again, I saw ;)

    Have to say too that the PNG version on the linked Nibirum Atlas page looks absolutely gorgeous!
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Thank you for your kind words, Wyvern, and everyone else too. The boat was on a return run from the Irisian City States, silly!
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Of course; I should have realised!
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      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTime6 days ago edited
     
    Posted By: WyvernHave to say too that the PNG version on the linked Nibirum Atlas page looks absolutely gorgeous!

    Agreed! Perhaps the forum was doing some of its odd jiggery-pokery to your PNG, Quenten, but the version on the atlas page looks utterly beautiful.

    *doffs cap*

    ~Dogtag
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      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Thanks, you are all too kind
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: Dogtagbut the version on the atlas page looks utterly beautiful
    The reason why the atlas maps sometimes look better is that I always export the hi-res (always 8192 pixels int he largest dimensions) from the .fcw, and then resize it for the main atlas view (1280 pixels in the largest dimensions). Rendering something much larger than required and then downsampling it generally results in a better image than straight export.