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    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2017 edited
     
    So, I thought I had the saved custom color palette deal figured out, but maybe not.

    I saved a custom palette, and attached it to my city map made in the 2007 "Modern City" annual style. That seems to work fine - whenever I open that map, I get my custom color palette with it.

    But when I started a new map, of a different city, I clicked the "Reload Custom PAL" button, which I thought would load that same custom palette into the new map. But the button seemed to do nothing. Clicking it didn't make any changes to the default color palette in the new map. So, I'm thinking I somehow missed something in the process of saving a custom palette for use with other maps?

    The other, somewhat related thing, is that I wondered if it was possible to "export" my sheets and layers from one map, and into another. I made a lot of mods to them for my first city map, and I want to use the same set up for subsequent city maps in that style. So I was hoping there was a way to avoid making all those changes (deleting some sheets and layers, adding/renaming others, and setting up tools to go to specific sheets and layers) manually for EVERY new map?

    Thanks for any assistance!
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      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2017
     
    Palette: You probably never saved your palette to disk, you only attached it to the other drawing (Or you saved it before you made any changes, then edited it, and finally attached it without saving the changes to disk.) You can always load up the map with that palette, and hit Save custom Pal, and then you should be able to load it in another map.

    Sheets: Sheets (and theier effects) can be saved by making a new preset from the sheets and effects dialog. Whenever you load that preset in another map, it will add all missing sheets (note that these will end up at the end of the drawing order however)

    Layers: There are no way to transfer these unfortunately.

    However, with all those settings, what you really wish to look into is simply making a new template which you can use as the basis for your map instead of the standard templates. A template is just a normal CC drawing, saved with the .fct extension (and normally put in the @Templates folder). When you create a new map from template, you get an exact copy of that template, including sheets, effects, layers, palette and any entities in it. The only thing you need to pay attention to is that empty sheets doesn't save, so make sure to have an entity on every sheet (Normally, this is done by putting a single point on every sheet at the 0,0 coordinate.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2017
     
    I have noticed that if I insert and then delete a map into one I am working on, the layers come in to. Not just the bitmap fills and symbols.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 30th 2017
     
    Posted By: JimPI have noticed that if I insert and then delete a map into one I am working on
    Yea, you are right. Note that you don't actually have to place and delete the file at all. Once you have chosen insert file, and picked the file and have it ready at your cursor to place it, you can just hit Esc to cancel. This will add the layers and the fill style references (but not the symbol references [which you usually don't want anyway])
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2017
     
    Posted By: Monsen... you don't actually have to place and delete the file at all. Once you have chosen insert file, and picked the file and have it ready at your cursor to place it, you can just hit Esc to cancel. This will add the layers and the fill style references...

    Well, sonuvagun.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2017
     
    My brain will forget and think I didn't load it, so I have to insert and then undo. But its interesting to find out I don't have to actually insert it.
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
     
    Thanks for the replies!

    So I tried creating a template - it's neat that you can do that (I didn't know you could), but since it copies EVERYTHING, including the entities, it's more or less the same as making a copy of the map itself, right? Meaning, if I simply copied the FCW file and gave it a new name, deleted all the entities that are specific to my first map, and started working on my second map, wouldn't that amount to the same thing as if I start the second map with a template based on the first map? Correct me if I have misunderstood something here, of course.

    Re: the color palette - this has me mystified. After reading your post, Monsen, I went back in and made sure to hit the Save button in my first map, and then tried the "reload custom PAL" button again on my second map - no dice. Nothing happens. So it looks like it's SUPPOSED to copy the custom palette over, but for some reason, mine isn't.

    I tried that "insert the other map file but hit escape before actually placing it," and as you guys said, it actually does add all of the layers from my first map when I do this, and most of the drawing tools are pointing to the correct layer and sheet, as well. So that's a handy trick. If I could just get that color palette to load properly, then I'd be all good - sheets, layers, and the palette would all be taken care of. Any ideas on what might be wrong there?

    If I CAN'T get the palette to load, I did have one other idea. But I'm unsure of one aspect of it. Using a Template based on the first map, or just copying the FCW file as I said above, should work - all my layers and the palette would obviously be there, then, since it's just a copy of the first map. But, the second map is going to be of a CONSIDERABLY larger city, so the background and map border need to be much bigger. So here is what I thought I could do:

    1. Copy the FCW file for Old Map and rename the copy New Map.
    2. Open up New Map, which now has all my layers and all that stuff, and delete all the entities from Old Map (including the map border and background).
    3. Create a brand new map, which will be empty, BUT will be sized for the correct size of New Map.
    4. Copy the correct sized background and map border from the empty map into New Map. Boom, now I have New Map with all my layers, sheets, my palette, and a border and background sized for the larger city.

    But here is the part I'm not sure of- is there any precision needed with lining up the map border and background when I paste them into New Map? I tried it briefly before making this post, copying them from the empty map into a copy of Old Map. It looks okay, the "zoom to extents" button centers around the pasted map border. So is that good enough? Or is it important to line the border up in a specific way relative to particular coordinates?

    Put another way: can I just "eyeball it" when I paste a map border and background, which redefines the size of the whole map itself, and be good to go, or might that cause me some trouble down the road if it's not inserted more precisely?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
     
    For the template, yes, if you just make it directly from you current map, it will have all the entities. But you mentioned wanting to use these settings for multiple maps, and then it can be worth spending the effort cleaning it out and make a proper template. If you haven't messed with the map border, it should works as a wizard template too, meaning you can just request an appropriate size right in the new map wizard.

    For your copying, eyeballing generally works fine, but use view -> move origin to move the origin point (0,0) to the bottom left corner of the map. Use the endpoint or intersection modifier to make sure this is precise.
    Also remember that it is the lines on the MAP BORDER layer that defines the map border, not the visual decorative border.
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
     
    Oh huh, I didn't realize I could do that, re: making a template that can then be used with the new map wizard. When I created one from my existing map, I could only access by using "pick from a template" (as opposed to "decide settings myself") - this seemed to preclude selecting the template I had made from my map while also being able to set the border/background size of the new map in the wizard. How can I make it so that's possible? Is there a tutorial somewhere on creating templates that would explain this?

    Same for "view > move origin" and the endpoint or intersection modifiers; I'm afraid I'm not up to speed on those tools work, so I'm not quite clear on how they would apply to this. Am I using "move origin" in the empty map from which I am copying the larger border and background? Or in the map where I will be pasting them? And I've used the endpoint or intersection tools very little, if at all, just in general. I took a loot at this: http://www.profantasy.com/cchelp/MOD/hlp_cnc_modifiers.htm
    and I think I understand the basic gist, but I'm not sure I'm using it correctly.


    Again, I'm not necessarily asking for someone to give me step-by-step instructions here in this thread for either of the above operations - though hey, if someone WANTS to do that I won't stop you and will be very appreciative. lol But if there are some tutorials or PDFs you can point me to that would touch on the template creation and/or move origin and endpoint usage to ensure precision when copying these, that would work and I'd be appreciative of that as well! Especially for the template thing: understanding how to use move origin and the modifiers certainly could be useful in general, but since I am hopefully going to be making several of these city maps with the same parameters, I'd love to be able to start a new one by choosing a template that gives me the same set of sheets, layers, colors, and other settings, while still specifying the size of each map in the New Map wizard, so learning how to make a template that can do that is definitely the method I'm more interested in at the moment.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
     
    There is a special folder inside each map type folder in @Templates called Wizard. Putting your template there will make it available for the new map wizard. You should include a text file with a description of the template, and a thumbnail that shows the template (preferably something created using that template, not just a screenshot of a blank template) like the other templates in that folder have.

    You would use move origin in your new map after having pasted the border. The intention here is to simply place the origin point the bottom left corner of your map. This command is dirt simpl, you just activate it and click where the origin should be. But for precise placement, you should use modifiers. Check out this topic for more information.
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
     
    Aha, thanks Monsen, that's much simpler than I thought. And it worked... mostly. I am almost good to go here, since it looks like this will work, if I can just solve this one weird thing.

    I deleted all the entities from my original map, except for the background and map border. I saved the template and did all the prep as per your instructions, and when I created a new map with my custom template, it worked fine except for one thing. Everything is there, all my layers and whatnot, and the map border and background are there (with my background color, which is a different shade of green from the default BG color in "Modern City"), but I got this:



    See how the map border is too big, leading to the right side looking weirdly huge? And it IS the map border that is sized wrong, because the green part is about 19k by 21k, which is what I specified in the Wizard.

    Now, the original map (the one used to make this template) was 8800 x 8800, so a perfect square. And the test map, as noted, isn't a square since it's 19k by 21k. I tried again to make a new map from my template, this time 19k by 19k, so it'd be an actual square like the original map was. And that one came out fine; the green background looks perfectly centered and the map border has the proper thickness on all sides. So could this be why it got borked in the first test map, because the map that served as the origin for the template was a square? If so, how can I make it so that the template can support any dimensions, whether square or not? Thanks!
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2017
     
    A tutorial almost needs to be written on creating your own template with customized colour palette. This thread has been quite illuminating for me - thanks Monsen and Saito.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2017
     
    How is that map border made? When rescaling templates based on wizard input, CC3 doesn't do a simple rescale, it tries to prevent distortion of entities such as the map border. (For example, if you have a nice 10 map unit border around your map, you still want it to be 10 map units on all sides even if the map is twice as tall and half as wide as the original template). However, sometimes, this may also result in some undesirable results. I recommend that the visible map border in a template be made up of 4 distinct sections (top, bottom, left, right, built much the same way as a classic wooden portrait frame), as this generally results in a better result.
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 6th 2017 edited
     
    Well, the map border wasn't "made", not by me at least. I've never made a map border and wouldn't know how to add one and get its precise size and positioning right, although I guess some of what you were telling me about earlier (with endpoint modifiers and such) would be part of that.
    In any case, the border seen in the image I linked is the same as the map border that gets added by default to any new map in the Annual 2007 "Modern City" style. I didn't change it when I created my template - I deleted everything BUT the border and background from the map, before saving the template. The result is that weird off-center/too-big border when making a map that doesn't have squared dimensions (e.g. 19x21), but has a perfectly normal centered border when the dimensions are square (e.g. 19x19).

    In both templates (the original Modern City template that came with the annual, and my custom template), the map border seems to be a single entity.

    The border doesn't even really show up in PNG renders of maps made in this style, so maybe it doesn't matter that much? Still, somehow I'd feel better correcting the issue, if possible.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2017 edited
     
    hmm.. I don't really know why it would behave like that. Could you post your template here, so I can have a look at it? See if I can figure out what is going wrong.
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 7th 2017
     
    Will do - uploaded the FCT file with this post.

    The original Modern City style can load up a new map that's not a square just fine, so it's got to be something unique to the template I made, but I have no idea what.

    Oh also, don't mind the tiny number of sheets - I saw what you said about empty sheets not saving, just haven't gotten around to fixing that yet, haha.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2017
     
    I am not sure why it makes a difference, but scaling the template down to the standard 1000x800 seem to cause it to behave much better. Simply use Non Visual Scale XY to scale it by 1000/8800 (you can type in this calculation on the command line when CC3+ asks for the value, no need to calculate it yourself first) on the X axis and 800/8800 on the Y axis with scale origin 0,0
    • CommentAuthorSaito S
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2017
     
    Good news: it worked! Thanks tons Monsen, you've been extremely helpful, as always!

    I changed the map border to 1000x800, then saved a new FCT template. Creating new maps from that new template seems to work fine - I tested this by not only trying my 19k by 21k map again, but also by creating a new map with even more heavily skewed dimensions: 8000 by 18000. Both came out fine, with the map border and everything sized/positioned correctly, with all my layers, my color palette, and sheets intact, so yay! This is great not only because I can work on more city maps now, but this template thing is cool - I might be able to use this in the future if I again want to make several maps of different places, but all with the same style and set of basic mapping parameters.

    I also didn't realize I could use that method with resize XY, where you can plug in the new size you want against the old size and it will just calculate that for you. So thanks for showing me that, as well - that will likely come in handy in the future.

    Oh also for the sheets: what I ended up doing was just setting number labels up - one number per sheet, ascending (so since I had 27 sheets I had to preserve, the numbers go 1 - 27). They're these really obvious big black numbers just sitting on the map background, so they're obnoxious and hard to miss, but that was the point. By using those, instead of trying to make something that would be small or subtle and not be immediately visible on new maps made with the template, I actually found it easier to keep track of where each entity was on each sheet, making it easy to ensure I had done one for every sheet. Of course, this means that when I make a new map with my template, these numbers show up on it, but they're easily disposed of - I can just delete them, or (since I grouped them all together on their own dedicated layer) hide them.

    @Quenten - you're welcome! I'm always happy when, in the process of getting help with my own questions, the thread I post helps someone else, too.