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    •  
      CommentAuthor01i
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2017
     
    I thought you guys might be interested in this. Justin Andrew Mason is currently running a Kickstarter campaign to fund a large series of maps that he's creating.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/justinmason/the-big-book-of-maps-for-tabletop-roleplaying-game

    On the surface the campaign is aimed at dungeon masters and roleplayers (rather than cartographers), but it's actually a really nice deal for cartographers.

    Currently, all backers (including those at the $1 level), will receive access to a large collection of PNG map icon files, which is expanding as the campaign stretches.

    He's also adding 'Featured Additions' as each week goes by, the first of which also being available to backers at the $1 level, and being ideal for cartographers.

    As we only really need to pledge $1 to get everything we'd use, I've suggested that he adds a couple of additional rewards aimed directly at cartographers.

    Note, that the icon packs are not commercial use like with ProFantasy unless you back at one of the higher pledge levels.

    Week 1 Featured Addition
    ------------------------
    5x Compass Roses
    5x Map Borders/Frames
    5x Scale Boxes
    Set of Photoshop actions

    Unlocked Icon Sets
    --------------------
    Door & Passages
    Furniture & Shelving
    Statues & Columns
    Illumination Sources
    Wizard's Laboratory
    Wells & Fountains
    Vaults & Sarcophagi
    Foodstuff & Storage
    Holy Symbols & Relics
    The Great Library
    Loot! Treasure
    Sark Sigils & Ruins
    Stairs & Daises
    Danger! Traps
    Portals & Wyrds
    Fungi & Slime
    Tavern Amenities
    Trees & Plants
    Obstructions
    Alien Technology
    Science Fiction
    Dwarven Mines
    Strange Elements

    Next Few Stretch Icon Sets
    ---------------------------
    Elven Artifacts [$11.5k]
    Dungeon Cell [$12k]
    Executioner's Den [$12.5k]
    Bloody Mess [$13k]
    Loot (2) The Hoard [$13.5k]
    Merchant Caravan [$14k]
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2017
     
    Quite intriguing! :)
    • CommentAuthornestharus
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2017 edited
     
    I'd love a CC3+ installer for this when it's eventually out for people that bought the symbols or instructions on how to import #lazy

    ^_^
    • CommentAuthortaustinoc
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2017
     
    Posted By: nestharusI'd love a CC3+ installer for this when it's eventually out for people that bought the symbols or instructions on how to import #lazy

    ^_^


    And installer would require the cooperation of (or license from) the creator, since even the commercial license prohibits distributing the symbols as a set.

    Instructions, however, would be another matter.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Instructions are easy, and easy enough to find - just search for "import symbols." Consult the help file too, and I'm sure there's a vid on it.
    •  
      CommentAuthor01i
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Quick update.

    After I suggested that he should create a reward option aimed at cartographers using the icons, he added this:

    Pledge $50 or more
    Icon Set License

    This pledge level is intended for cartographers who would like permission to utilize the map icons released by this project to use in their own professional projects. Backers at this level are granted a non-exclusive (royalty-free) license (with modification rights) to use any of the map icons unlocked in this campaign for their own professional tabletop RPG maps (including print, digital, and VTT). That’s more than 250 map icons at less than 20-cents each. Resale of individual map icons to third parties and inclusion in other map icon graphic collections is prohibited. Releasing individual map icons as part of a specific VTT map or adventure is allowed. License will be issued for a single cartographer. If you have questions or concerns, please ask via message! This pledge level also includes everything provided by the $20 pledge level.

    • Map Icon License
    • Digital Map Downloads (weekly releases)
    • PDF of Completed Book
    • Print Book at Production Cost + Shipping
    • Map Icon Packs (when unlocked)
    • Your name in the book’s “Thank You” section.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Nice. That seems to allow people the freedom to use the icons in their maps as they wish. Still doesn't allow redistribution (although that wouldn't be expected either), so you can't use them in a CC3 map and then give someone else the map file to use (unless they have purchased this collection themselves), but that is the same with symbols from any official ProFantasy addon too.
    • CommentAuthorTopdecker
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    I am interested, but it would be nice to have a style sheet or something similar so I could see smallish versions of what, exactly, I'd be getting. The map collection itself is ok, but I mean, I am here for the fishing pole, not the fish.

    Tim
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017 edited
     
    Send him a message through kickstarter and ask him to provide one. Most kickstarter creators happily oblige if they think it provides more exposure. I agree that knowing what you get is important.
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Official ProFantasy Addons do not allow for redistribution? Wouldn't that mean that the community atlas is a hell of a copyright infringement?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017 edited
     
    No, because we don't redistribute any of the symbols or artwork.

    Do note that when I talk about redistribution of symbols, I refer to them in their base symbol form, not as unextractable components in a map exported as an image. The latter can be redistributed as you please. (And obviously, the .fcw files does not have the artwork embedded in them either, they will only work for people owning the same addons)
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Posted By: MonsenNice. That seems to allow people the freedom to use the icons in their maps as they wish. Still doesn't allow redistribution (although that wouldn't be expected either), so you can't use them in a CC3 map and then give someone else the map file to use (unless they have purchased this collection themselves), but that is the same with symbols from any official ProFantasy addon too.


    I think (and hope) it allows it: Releasing individual map icons as part of a specific VTT map or adventure is allowed.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Posted By: Gathar
    I think (and hope) it allows it: Releasing individual map icons as part of a specific VTT map or adventure is allowed.


    This means it must be embedded in a map. You can't redistribute the actual, literal, icon by itself. Just my opinion.
    •  
      CommentAuthor01i
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017 edited
     
    Gathar, when Monsen's talking about giving someone else the map file, I think he's talking about giving them an .FCW.

    You 'could' give someone the .FCW but they'd need to have the icons themselves in order to open the file with CC3+ and see the symbols. But that's a pretty standard thing with external artwork. If he gave permission to redistribute the icons themselves as individual entities (rather than embedded in a map), then he'd be losing sales. It'd be no different from someone sending you the image files from a Profantasy Symbol Set so you don't have to buy it, it's just not allowed.

    You can however redistribute the symbols embedded in a flat map file of any type (adventure VTT etc). It just has to be flat (e.g. a .PNG, .JPG etc), and not a source to extract the icons. No layers and therefore no way of extracting the icons from the map.

    On the subject of a CC3+ installer, I'm sure if somebody offered to build one, Justin would distribute it. I mentioned doing a CC3+ pack, and he wasn't adverse to the idea, just didn't want to be name-dropping cartopgraphy software.
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Well VTT are not so flat, you can often move objects, hide them. So they need to be in separate files. And since the license explicitly allows usage for VTT, I'm unsure. And on this kind of subjects, when unsure, reading the words of the license is pretty useless, because words have different meanings that only lawyer can agree on, and even them need a lot of money to do so.

    So, instead, I just contacted the author of the kickstarter, asking him this specific question. I hope he will answer, therefore closing this debate.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017 edited
     
    Posted By: JMunsonIIThis means it must be embedded in a map. You can't redistribute the actual, literal, icon by itself. Just my opinion.
    Posted By: 01iYou 'could' give someone the .FCW but they'd need to have the icons themselves in order to open the file with CC3+ and see the symbols. But that's a pretty standard thing with external artwork. If he gave permission to redistribute the icons themselves as individual entities (rather than embedded in a map), then he'd be losing sales. It'd be no different from someone sending you the image files from a Profantasy Symbol Set so you don't have to buy it, it's just not allowed.
    I am pretty sure that is what he means. But he did word it a little ambiguously.
    Remember that this is a guy who is used to equate a map with an image file (I am doing some guesswork here, as I don't know the guy, but he seems to be working in photoshop), I am pretty sure he didn't even consider map types like CC3 maps that links to actual external resources.
    Of course, for definite answers, you need to ask Justin himself.


    Posted By: 01iOn the subject of a CC3+ installer, I'm sure if somebody offered to build one, Justin would distribute it.
    Remember, the symbols doesn't need to be part of the installer. You could write an installer that simply requires the zip from Justin to be in the same folder, and it would then unpack it, put everything in the correct location and so on.
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017 edited
     
    I got an answer from him, that clarifies the question. I'm quoting his exact words:

    Justin Andrew Mason, author of the kickstarter
    If I am understanding your question correctly, the answer is: yes you can. But to be sure, here are two specific lists (see below) and let me know if they clear things up. :)

    When it IS okay to distribute the individual original PNG map icon file for commercial use with the map icon license:
    * If the map icon is being provided as a resource file as a part of one specific VTT map that actually utilizes that icon.
    * If the map icon being used as an element of a map source file (PSD, CC3 document, etc.) that actually utilizes that icon.

    In the above two instances, the original PNG map icons would be needed for those products to be fully functional in those formats, so they are allowed to be included.

    When it's NOT okay to distribute the individual original PNG map icon files for commercial use with the map icon license:
    * Including a map icon in any file collection (such as an icon/symbol pack or stock image collection) where the map icon itself is the primary element of the product.
    * Including a map icon in any file collection where the map icon is not directly utilized on a map included as the primary element of the product.

    The spirit of the license is to give cartographers as much flexibility to use the icons to create actual commercial cartography using the symbols, but stopping short of simply allowing repackaging the map icons as the primary element for resale.

    How this functions with doing commercial work for publishers: The cartographer license is granted to you (the cartographer), and thus would allow including the original PNG map icon with your map source files to the publisher. However, the publisher would not be allowed to use those individual map icons on another product that was created by another cartographer who does not have a license to use the map icons. The publisher would only be allowed to distribute those original PNG map icon files as a part of the product created by you (the licensed cartographer) with which it was provided.


    I'm glad I bought those :)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Great clarification. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    Wow, that is an incredible broad permission. I love things like this, but it is certainly unexpected.
    He does open himself up to some avenues of abuse by allowing this though, but hopefully people will be decent enough to no do that.
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2017
     
    I think that for him, the real value are the maps. The icons are already given to anyone who supports the project for $1. Non decent people will pay the $1 version and not respect the license anyway. I hope that people who accept to pay 50 times as much are probably decent people :)
    • CommentAuthorBOHICA
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2017
     
    Cool! I just backed for the Icon Set license.