Into ingot casting we go!

...now that we've got molten metal (presumably), it needs to be cast into ingots...

A "dry" version and one with "gold" in it...

Jon

Comments

  • You have become addicted. keep up the good work.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    The symbol is well done, but it looks a bit too fancy from a technological view IMHO. Didn't most of these in olden times use a single pouring point with sloping channels to make the metal run into the casts?
  • Monsen, give him a break! This is a higfhly advanced medieval society he is creating. :D
  • JMunsonIIJMunsonII Traveler
    edited March 2017
    Posted By: MonsenThe symbol is well done, but it looks a bit too fancy from a technological view IMHO. Didn't most of these in olden times use a single pouring point with sloping channels to make the metal run into the casts?
    This is a valid viewpoint and a good question, so I'll strive to justify my choice by way of explanation...

    This is a "fantasy" setting, so, in truth, anything applies (and seems to - "sending stones," flying boats, etc.). However, there is exercised some restraint on going too far. Though that line continues to blur as time goes on - all in the name of extending the fun factor.

    Looking at our history, yes, it is possible the casting process was kept very simple (and still is in many respects), and I've tried to echo that with this apparatus. I don't profess to know much about casting, though I do know what a mold is and so on. I imagine the process to similar to baking muffins in a tin though - batter getting poured/dished/spooned into the cups somehow.

    Now, with regard to ancient cultures, keep in mind that the ancient Egyptians knew about electroplating, which means they also knew about electricity. And, overall, as Graham Hancock states, "stuff just keeps getting older." Meaning our ancient brothers and sisters knew far more than for which we give them credit.

    If we look at the Hobbit movies, the dwarven mines used chains, rails, "huge" smelters, bellows, etc., (all driven by machines and overhead things) and we know the races all understood levers, switches, fulcrums, etc., so a simple two-rail sliding funnel doesn't really seem all that far-fetched to me at all. Just because the movie makers didn't plop one in doesn't mean it couldn't have existed.

    In the instant case, this particular cult was a huge operation, nearly on the order of Stygia but far older and far worse, and had some advancements while keeping other things as they were (slaves can't work mines if machines do the digging for them, and something about the delicacy of for what they were mining).

    So, no, I don't think this too fancy.

    Now, that being said, I have NO problem drawing up a symbol or several that use the pour-and-cast methods if that finds broad appeal. :) Just tell me what you'd like and I'll include them - then we're all happy, right? :D
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    edited March 2017
    Posted By: JMunsonII... this particular cult was a huge operation, nearly on the order of Stygia but far older and far worse...
    Great googly-moogly!  :-O  :-SS
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited March 2017
    Posted By: JMunsonIIkeep in mind that the ancient Egyptians knew about electroplating
    Well, as far as I know, there are no scientific evidence to that fact. I know about the theory and the Baghdad "Batteries", and experiences have shown that it could be theoretically possible, but there has been found no evidence of such use. Items who were first though of as having been elctroplated turned out to have used a process called fire-gilding instead.
    Posted By: JMunsonIIIf we look at the Hobbit movies
    Love the movies, but they keep tipping the scales into the unbelievable with their effort to make it large and grand. I don't find much inspiration for my games from their technology.


    Personally, I have always opted for a more realistic approach. It is fantasy, true, but I don't like having the fantasy aspect completely overrun the medieval base of it.

    Of course, my comments was based on what I would expect to see in a medieval era mining operation, without knowing your specific needs. If this fits the technological needs for your operation, then it is perfect. The important thing is to have a symbol that fits what you are trying to convey with the map.
    Posted By: JMunsonIIthen we're all happy, right?
    I'm always happy. Not that I wouldn't mind such symbols, I have lots of mines that need mapping, but don't feel you have to make symbols for my needs, there are too many needs in the world for you to fulfill them all :).
    If you want to put out a general use mine set, then I think such a symbol should probably be available, but these are your symbols, so you should make what you want to make.
  • Posted By: MonsenWell, as far as I know, there are no scientific evidence to that fact. I know about the theory and the Baghdad "Batteries", and experiences have shown that it could be theoretically possible, but there has been found no evidence of such use. Items who were first though of as having been elctroplated [sic] turned out to have used a process calledfire-gildinginstead.
    I can certainly see how that could be. These are all just theories anyway - some better founded than others. Also, there are many who would rather keep history in a certain light. In this case there is certainly room for both options (unless one's mind is closed). The last I'll say on that is much history was lost due to willful destruction and natural forces - the only clues left are that which are in stone (and not eroded), and any minuscule physical remains. All I can say is the ancients were, indeed, far more advanced than we currently know.
    Posted By: Monsen...medieval base...
    I don't see medieval at all in D&D (perhaps some others) - Tolkien's books (which, I believe, were the inspiration behind D&D) do not seem medieval to me. Aspects, yes, but the introduction of non-human races, "fantastic beasts," magic, et al, remove medieval from the equation (for me at any rate).

    Regardless...
    Posted By: MonsenNot that I wouldn't mind such symbols,...
    What would you like to see?
  • And, heck, we can always go with:
    Great wizards once toiled in the smelting & casting rooms, weaving their spells to lift the huge, hot, heavy, molten-metal-laden smelting pots and then tipping them into the casting molds. One wizard would work a pot, the other would work the mold funnel - working in tandem to pour the metal into each of the ingot molds. The sweat on their brows indicated just how much concentration and mental strength - akin to a giants physical stamina - was needed to move these giant-sized pieces of equipment; and they did it over many long hours.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    I think this is what is great with role playing games, it is easy to put what you want in there, and make it your own game. (Or book, movie, etc)
    In my games, I prefer to focus on the medieval aspects, keeping magic low key. The world is mostly mundane and "ordinary". Magic (and especially higher level magic) is limited to very few individuals, who would never even consider spending their powers working in a mine, they have grander schemes in mind.
    But that's just my game, it isn't any more right and wrong than any other. But it does flavor my perception of things obviously.

    So, since you ask what I would like to see, that is stuff you could imagine would be in a period-scale medieval mine, perhaps with some low-key non-magical fantasy enhancements. And most of your symbols have fit that bill quite nicely so far. And don't get me wrong, I think this is also a nice symbol, it is just that I couldn't see it fit into any context I am used to working with. But it just goes to prove that you need to know the complete context to properly evaluate a symbol.
  • Posted By: Monsenthat is stuff you could imagine would be in a period-scale medieval mine,...
    I will delve into this... :D (see what I did there?)
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
  • @Monsen: I've dug into medieval period mining stuff, and it seems they kept things very, very simple - with the exception of certain specialized (per mine) equipment (if it was needed). They appear to have mostly done things by hand, using small wheelbarrows to haul, or perhaps small rail cars later. The cart I already made somewhat resembles a wheelbarrow, and I can adapt it to a rail car. So, I could do some rail sections (providing they don't already exist), and create the rail car. I think lanterns are already available (not sure), and I've made picks/hammers/shovels (close enough for horsehoes, handgrenades, and, now, mining).

    As for larger machinery - that's where the specialty part comes in. They sometimes used water wheels to power things, or "Wheels of Pain" ( :D ), some cranes to bring stuff to the surface (hand powered wooden contraptions, tri-to-multi-legged contraptions too), some winches both above/below ground to move things up/down levels...

    Is there a particular piece you'd like? Do you want the track sections and car?

    Let me know.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    A winch to be placed above a hole sounds real nice. Same does a four-wheel version of that cart of yours.

    When it comes to track sections, I prefer to draw them rather than use symbols, symbols are generally too limited (You can use connecting symbols, but then you need to draw all kinds of turns up front). See the screenshot at the bottom of my post here for example rails.

    But you shouldn't be thinking about symbols for me now. For the time being, my life is much simpler as long as I stick to only official ProFantasy symbols, because that gives my maps dual purpose.
  • Posted By: Monsen...symbols for me...
    ...can become symbols for others too... ;)
  • Posted By: MonsenSame does a four-wheel version of that cart of yours.
    W/ or W/O the handle, w/ or w/o couplings? Handbrake?
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    In my mind, even if on rails, they would probably be simple, and [pushed|drawn] by [miners|slaves|horses|captured monsters], so I would say with a handle and without couplings. But I am sure all combinations would be useful for someone.
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