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    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2017 edited
     
    Hi all,

    So, this weekend I was noodling around with the Lindstrom Black and White style from the January 2017 Annual issue and came up with the map below: "County Merrick," a coastal fiefdom carved out of the wilderness a couple of centuries ago by adventurers from a kingdom across the sea. (Think northern New England, if there were a desert beyond the Appalachians.)

    This is maybe a .75 draft. There are no labels, for example. But I'd be interested in people's critiques and suggestions. On my part, I think I've left too much open water space to the east, giving myself not much land to play with.

    Anyway, I hope you enjoy this Sunday night map. :)

    (Edited to update subject line)
      County Merrick.JPG
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2017
     
    This is a very nice map Barliman. There really isn't anything to critique. So I'll just that you did a great job with this one. It reminds me of a handout map I would give to some players. And I kind of want to walk those roads and check that area out, sooo...yeah, if a map makes me want to explore the area then it's a great map!
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2017
     
    Posted By: TonnichiwaThis is a very nice map Barliman. There really isn't anything to critique. So I'll just that you did a great job with this one. It reminds me of a handout map I would give to some players. And I kind of want to walk those roads and check that area out, sooo...yeah, if a map makes me want to explore the area then it's a great map!


    Thanks for the kind words. :)

    I do wish the style had a few more symbols, such as a mine. A problem I ran into involved the bridge symbol. I had thought of placing one across the large river and tried rotating it to a more East-West alignment. But, when I did that, it looked "odd" and clumsy. It seems to only work in it NE-SW alignment. Is there a way to rotate or realign symbols so they still look "natural?"
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2017
     
    Well, the only way I know of to change a symbol and still have it look natural is to mirror the symbol. Flipping something like a bridge around with a rotate button really doesn't seem to work that well.

    But the style seems like one that you could probably draw your own mine and bridge in and have it look normal. You would just have to make sure to put the symbol on a transparent background before loading it into your Symbol folder for your Symbol Catalog.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2017
     
    Posted By: TonnichiwaWell, the only way I know of to change a symbol and still have it look natural is to mirror the symbol.


    I'd forgotten about mirroring: I'll give that a try.

    I note Annuals 2 and 3 have some B&W styles. I'll be glad when they get upgraded, as I suspect some of the symbols would be useful.
  1.  
    I hope you find something that works for you. It will be interesting to see if the different black and white styles fit together nicely.
  2.  
    Posted By: TonnichiwaWell, the only way I know of to change a symbol and still have it look natural is to mirror the symbol.


    Note that you can do that while placing the symbol with a right click, check Independent X and Y and setting the X scale to negative.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2017
     
    Posted By: Joachim de Ravenbel
    Posted By: TonnichiwaWell, the only way I know of to change a symbol and still have it look natural is to mirror the symbol.


    Not that you can do that while placing the symbol with a right click, checkIndependent X and Yand setting the X scale to negative.


    Thank you, I'll give that a try!
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2017
     
    Did a little more work on the map this weekend: placed most labels (have to reread about text to get the label for the large town right), edited the island to make it more interesting, and fixed the desert fill to bring it right up to the mountains. Also changed the name of the land slightly, to "County Merric."

    Question: what's the best/most interesting to label the map overall? You can see my first effort next to the scale, but it's kind of bland. Any suggestions?
      County Merric.JPG
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeFeb 7th 2017
     
    You've taken a simple B&W style and really brought it to life. Love it!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMedio
    • CommentTimeFeb 7th 2017
     
    The desert maybe needs some more symbols... dunes perhaps? Dunno. I like the mountains and the coast very much. Congratulations!
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeFeb 7th 2017
     
    Posted By: ShessarYou've taken a simple B&W style and really brought it to life. Love it!


    Thanks!

    Posted By: MedioThe desert maybe needs some more symbols... dunes perhaps? Dunno. I like the mountains and the coast very much. Congratulations!


    Thank you! I'm waiting for ProFantasy to post a patched version of the style (Problems ID'd in this thread: http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=6822&page=1#Item_1 ), so I can see if the desrt fill changes, but, I agree, it needs some dunes.

    Work going forward: Add the coast outline, place the text for the "Cordray" (the city) and name the river leading from the Evil Tower.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2017
     
    Very nice!

    A few minor thoughts.

    There seems to be a church-like building by the bridge east of Tarba which hasn't a name-label as yet.

    Not sure the "Dimocq" label needs to be at an angle, given none of the other settlement labels are (but maybe it's for that part of the island coast too?).

    Should the two tent settlements in the north have names as well? Whether or not, I'd suggest moving the "Castle Merric" label southwest of where it is now, as it could be labelling either the island tower or the mainland tent presently.

    For the map title, maybe make the "County Merric" label significantly larger, so the "In The Time of..." date label is just a subheading, not the full title. Trying a different font for the name might be an interesting alternative, or even adding the title as Text along a curve on the seaward side of the island arc, with the subheading in parentheses separately, but on the same curving alignment. Or not - it's your map, after all; I'm as likely to wreck it as help, I fear!
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2017
     
    Actually, those are good suggestions, Wyvern. I'll give them a try. :)
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2017
     
    So, I finally had some time to get back to finishing this map... and I ran into some problems, so here I am with more questions. :)

    I added the sea contours, but I'm not sure this looks right. I had tried it closer to the mainland coast, and then surrounding the islands with their won contours, but that left odd-looking gaps between the islands and the shore. Which would you do?

    More frustratingly, I can't get the border to come out right. I can do the upper and lower fine, but the side borders look more ragged -- and the western border is turned the wrong way.

    Suggestions on what to do with the side borders?

    Finally, a couple of questions about the style, itself. The example map that's at the start of the guide, "Skåne", uses monster symbols and a cartouche that aren't included in the style pack. Was this map made using "B&W Fantasy," or is it a "real world" map? Skåne is a province of Sweden as I recall.

    Finally (really!), the symbol for "dune" in the catalog has a "+" symbol, but it doesn't expand when clicked. When looking at the expanded catalog via right-clicking, there's a "Dune 1" and "Dune 2," but I'd swear they're exactly the same symbol.

    Anyway, here's the latest stage of the map:
      County Merric_a.JPG
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2017
     
    Posted By: Barlimanthere's a "Dune 1" and "Dune 2," but I'd swear they're exactly the same symbol.
    Tehy're very similar, but they are not identical. Differences are small enough that they are easy to mistake for the same symbol at a glance though.

    Posted By: BarlimanI can do the upper and lower fine, but the side borders look more ragged
    Do you use Snap and/or ortho to ensure you place the border completely straight? The border symbol is a connecting symbol, so it can be placed at any angle, but it looks bad if not placed perfectly straight


    Posted By: Barlimanand the western border is turned the wrong way
    Connecting symbols orient depending on the way you draw the path. Draw from top to bottom and they will appear one way, from bottom to top and they will orient the other way. The actual orientation of the symbol before you start drawing doesn't matter for connecting symbols.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2017
     
    Posted By: MonsenTehy're very similar, but they are not identical. Differences are small enough that they are easy to mistake for the same symbol at a glance though.


    Ah, okay. Still, clicking the "+" doesn't expand them.

    Do you use Snap and/or ortho to ensure you place the border completely straight? The border symbol is a connecting symbol, so it can be placed at any angle, but it looks bad if not placed perfectly straight


    I used nsap, but not ortho. Thanks, I'll give that a try.


    Connecting symbols orient depending on the way you draw the path. Draw from top to bottom and they will appear one way, from bottom to top and they will orient the other way. The actual orientation of the symbol before you start drawing doesn't matter for connecting symbols.


    Ah! The 10-watt bulb goes on in my mind. :) Thanks, that makes sense.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2017
     
    Barliman asked:More frustratingly, I can't get the border to come out right. I can do the upper and lower fine, but the side borders look more ragged -- and the western border is turned the wrong way.

    Suggestions on what to do with the side borders?


    Weirdly, the side borders on the CC3+ sample Naeirn map look rather ragged too, in both the PDF and CC3+ versions.

    Barliman then asked:The example map that's at the start of the guide, "Skåne", uses monster symbols and a cartouche that aren't included in the style pack. Was this map made using "B&W Fantasy," or is it a "real world" map? Skåne is a province of Sweden as I recall.


    The monster symbols are from the CA79 "Pär Lindström Black & White" style, but the cartouche seems to have been constructed using the CA121 "Black & White Fantasy" style's scalebar monsters, but with the scalebar removed or hidden behind a white bar for the map's title instead.

    Barliman lastly asked:Finally (really!), the symbol for "dune" in the catalog has a "+" symbol, but it doesn't expand when clicked. When looking at the expanded catalog via right-clicking, there's a "Dune 1" and "Dune 2," but I'd swear they're exactly the same symbol.


    I've had no problems with this. Make sure both symbols will be in view when you click to expand, but as Monsen noted, the two are indeed very similar to one another.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2017 edited
     
    Hi all,

    Well, *finally* I think this map is done: I've added text along a curve for the channel between the island and the mainland, fixed the map border, and added a compass and copyright statement. I've also added the sea contours, and that leads me to a question. Which of these two maps d you like better?

    The first, which keeps the contours near the shore and shows space for deep water, or the second, which encompasses all the islands in the contours with no gaps:
      County Merric.JPG
      County Merric_a.JPG
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2017
     
    I prefer the first - less clutter in the water.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2017
     
    Posted By: QuentenI prefer the first - less clutter in the water.


    Thanks Quenten. I think I do, too.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2017 edited
     
    FWIW, I agree.

    Beautiful map, by the way. I don't think I had a chance to comment on it yet but I love the layout. You managed to pack a lot into a small area without making it look cluttered, which is no mean feat. Additionally, I think you managed to use just the right number of dune symbols in your desert and placed them well, also a real trick.

    Your decision to use this style was inspired, I think. The map has a marvelous utility to it for gaming but it also has a wonderful, authentic look and feel to it. *doffs cap*

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2017
     
    Wow, thanks, Dogtag! That's high praise indeed. *blushes*

    I've attached the .fcw file for the map, in case anyone wants to see how the innards of this style works.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2017
     
    Thanks for sharing! *downloads with glee*
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2017
     
    What Dogtag said! Thanks
    • CommentAuthorHadrianVI
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2017
     
    Nice work! I like both versions.

    Thanks for uploading the fcw file.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2017
     
    Thanks, Hadrian VI. :)