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    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    I logged into my Dwarf Home sub site today to see what new, if any, visitors I have had recently.

    Apparently blexhn25.​webmeup.​com has some links to my site and might be selling my maps. My maps are free. And they should take all links, and maps, to my site down. Now.

    Their site claims they are just a web crawler site; however, they look like they are copying content and selling it:

    Here is why I think that, its from my visitor logs.

    19 Nov 2016 02:49:41 AM blexhn25.​webmeup.​com dwarfhome/​articles/​295/​FrontProductSaleDetail-​3207.​aspx

    There is a list of such links in my visitor logs.

    I have added 2 sentences to the top of my site pages nothing that all my maps are free. I realize there is nothing I can do about people like that, but I wanted you to be aware that if you see my maps elsewhere, this might be how they got there.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    Oh no! How distressing!

    I give stuff away for free because its nice sharing things - my textures for instance, so I would be pretty cross if I discovered someone was making a quick buck on them!

    Have you found the page where its being sold?
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    No, just the alleged web crawler that shows its some sort of product display on the site I found in my visitor logs. I did look at their site, the url redirects to a site that claims to just be a web crawler, and didn't see any sales items there.

    If they aren't selling them, thats a rather odd web crawler link.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016 edited
     
    Its the last bit that's a bit worrying - the "FrontProductSaleDetail" bit. I don't suppose that's just a weird way of saying "this is what's on the front of this webpage" is it?
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    I don't think so as the wording would be different.

    A few months ago I started seeing links to a site I decided to check on. Turns out that site said they could help with web design, and my site was getting page hits from their site. My impression ios they were pretending they had put my site together ansd were using that to sell site services to people. So I added on my site front page, Crest of a Star, that no one had helped me with my sites. And I used .htaccess to block them. My guess is that someone decided to sell my maps as punsihment for not letting them scam people into thinking they had helped me by building my site.

    They put a special character in their url so when I went to do a lookup, for the IP address, it would say invalid. i got their iP address anyway.

    It would be nice if their local government would stop them, but I don't see it happening.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    There are so many scams going on nowadays, I suppose its all a bit inevitable really, but no less irritating when it happens to you.

    Another huge scam that no one seems to realise is if someone pins an image from your webpage on their pinterest board. Apparently the reason pinterest has made its creators into millionaires is that whenever someone finds your site by clicking an image on a pinterest board, piniterest charge a commission on any sale that occurs on your site to anyone who has reached it through a pinterest hyperlink to one of your webpage images. I don't know whether the money comes from the vendor, or the purchaser, but basically, its stealing either way, since neither the vendor nor the purchaser are aware that its happening.

    That's why, when I've finished my maps and get them up on my author's webpage, I'm going to include the message "Not for redistribution or resale. Hyperlinking to this image is prohibited" along with the copyright notice. Then when I see any of them on a pinterest board I will at least have a foot to stand on when I demand that it be taken down. I'm a realist - I know I'm not going to make enough to become a professional writer full time, but I certainly have no intention of allowing the pinterest fat cats to benefit from my writing!
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016 edited
     
    May I copy what you have between the double quotes ?

    "Not for redistribution or resale. Hyperlinking to this image is prohibited"

    and put it on my sites ?

    Well, I would say: "Not for redistribution or resale. Hyperlinking to my site is prohibited"
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    LOL! Of course. I don't think there's a copyright on copyright wording... is there?
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    Not that I know of, but I wanted to check with you first.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    You could put a "Website designed by..." notice on the bottom of the first page to make it obvious that you created it yourself. That would make anyone claiming otherwise look a bit foolish to their potential customers ;)
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016 edited
     
    Wow, sorry to hear about this Jim.

    I also had no idea people were making money on pinned maps in Pintrest. That really sucks because I've never seen a penny for any of my maps yet every single map I've put up at the Cartographer's Guild has been pinned by multiple people to Pintrest.

    I've put these maps up for free for people to use and look at but not to make money from.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    I think Pinterest owes you some money.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016 edited
     
    Why would that be? I've never sold anything.

    EDIT: Oh sorry - I didn't see Tonnichiwa's comment :)

    If you sell things on your webpage, and you get a customer who's come through someone else's pinterest hyperlink to an image on your selling page, they somehow make money out of it. Not sure if they charge the vendor, or there's some kind of tiny increase to the price the customer actually pays which is syphoned off. That isn't made clear - but they have admitted it.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    Interestingly, only my sites with maps and game info for various games I play are web crawled. My other sites are so far untouched.

    I wonder if this same things happens on Facebook ? I think I'm the only one posting my maps there.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016 edited
     
    Re: pinterest - I've been trying to find the original article where I found my information. I'm now very confused, because although it was there just a month ago when I made that discovery (and I even pasted a quote from it into an email) its completely vanished. All I can think is that its been removed for some reason - possibly because pinterest is continually changing its presentation and its philosophy. There is currently an attribution problem of some kind, where art that is pinned isn't necessarily attributed to the original artist. Pinners can put their own comment on things, and this rarely ever contains an acknowledgement of the artist.

    There is a welter of confusing and conflicting information out there about pinterest, but it seems that work can be pinned and re-pinned ad-infinitum - the original pinner acquiring the kind of kudos for themselves that should really go to the original artist, who is mostly forgotten. It works very much like FB in that sense... and anything pinned to a pinner's boards automatically ends up on their FB page, unless they specifically block the sharing!

    The Wikipedia page on pinterest makes this comment about the way pinterest regards the copyright of the original author:

    "Pinterest's system is in line with Nicolas de Condorcet's view that the public’s interest in knowledge trumps the author’s property rights."

    There is a piece of code that you can put in your webpage to block pinners from pinning. I didn't copy it down for you (because I didn't think about it till after I'd already moved on to something else) but its easy enough to find if you just search for "block pinning".
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016
     
    This UTube video shows how to protect the images on your webpage from being pinned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-prEr7JvBI
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016 edited
     
    Sounds like Pinterest could be in violation of copyright laws a federal crime.

    Its a line of meta, but some browsers ignore that now due to bogus meta search info on a large number of sites.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2016 edited
     
    From what I've read this evening it seems they try to pass the responsibility for respecting copyrights on to their pinners. (Talk about passing the buck!)

    I don't think that most of the pinners even realise the risk their taking whenever they pin stuff to their boards in that case. At least - I'd like to think of it that way, rather than allow myself to believe that they just don't care.

    All we can do is make the copyright message nice and clear, and add that piece of code to the webpage - even if it doesn't always work. Surely it will stop some of them.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    I'll just have to watermark all of my maps. Whew. Anyway, I did get their web crawler and IP address into .htaccess. It hasn't stopped other sites like a group on FB that are linking to my drive-in movie site, but hopefully it will work for some of the problem sites.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    Over at the Guild, Robbie (the Webmaster) once talked about the possibility of automatic watermarks to protect our work from others hyperlinking without permission and giving no credit. I don't know how many maps you would have to watermark by hand, but maybe that would be an option for your website as a whole - to introduce a system whereby the maps are automatically marked with a copyright in the moment they are requested as a download?
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    I'll check to see if textpattern has a plugin for that.

    The pdf printer I use, bullzip, has the ability to add a watermark of my choice, text or picture, to anything I use to print to it. So I could just load up CC3 or CC3+ and print to png using bullzip. Output is my map with a watermark.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    I was thinking of all your hundreds of earlier maps that are already on your website - presumably without the copyright. I wouldn't like to have to go back through all my maps re-uploading them with a copyright notice on them, and my work must only be a pinprick against yours in terms of quantity. I've only been doing this for 6 months ;)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    over a thousand maps for both Crestar and my Traveller sites. So around 2500 maps.

    Anyway, I have come up with this. I had to use 'fit to page' for the map and 'foreground' for the watermark.

    Subject to modification, etc.
      arcologyb.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    Do you plan to have a download without that watermark too? The reason I am asking is that a watermark like that is quite hostile towards people downloading it for free with the intention of using it (which seems to be your intention that people can do). It brings the message across, but I would never load a map with such a text into my VTT and show it to my players.
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    Hello JimP,

    I totally understand your anger and frustration, but I really think the watermark as it just proposed is really intrusive and makes the map much more difficult to read.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    Perhaps you could make it A LOT smaller than that and force it to appear only across the bottom half cm of map (or even less) - perhaps in the border itself?
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016 edited
     
    I can change it. Bullzip has two angles, lower left to upper right, or upper left to lower right. I can make it smaller to.

    My thought earlier to day was to just go online, with an ftp program, and delete my map folders and add the maps back as I have time to add the watermark.

    edit: A number of things, like moving the text to one side, requires a paid version, changing the font, lots of things it says I can do, but it requires a paid version.

    It would be much easier for me to load the map, add the text using CC3 and CC3+, and exporting a new png.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016
     
    Here is what I came up with just using text in CC3.
      insidetop_lev023_00012b.png
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2016 edited
     
    If this is the route you want to go (watermarking all your images), doesn't Irfanview do that? Or one of its plugins? I know you're a fan but, if for some reason it doesn't quite do what you want, you may also want to consider FastStone Photo Resize, or FastStone Image Viewer (an Irfanview "competitor"), which I use myself on occasion and which has more features than Photo Resize. Both are freeware, and don't be fooled by the names, they offer many more features than their names suggest. FastStone has a nice line of quality freeware image utilities.
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    I'm using Faststone image viewer myself, and it offers the possibility to add a watermark (text or bitmap, you select the position, font, transparency...) to all images in a folder in just one operation.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    Maybe it should be less than half the size of the text in the rest of the map - the map being the focal point and the reason the drawing exists in the first place. The way you have done it the copyright message to me seems to be more important than anything else in the rest of the map.

    When I saw my own map posted without my knowledge and no credit at all on someone else's FB Group site I was pretty furious (as you all know), and I reacted very badly to start with - experimenting with all kinds of techniques which... frankly... now that I look back on those threads only served to express my rage and went a long way to frightening people away and/or ruining my maps altogether.

    The long and the short of it is that no matter how angry we feel at the time there really is very little we can do about it because of the way that people regard online images as common property, and there's nothing on Earth that's ever going to cause that to stop now that its there. Sites like FB and pinterest actually encourage people to take the view that stealing images is 'just what you do, because everyone else is doing it'.

    Once I managed to calm down I settled on a legible but otherwise quite discrete little copyright notice along the bottom edge of the map - usually in the bottom right hand corner where an artist might be expected to sign a painting. It seems to be working, as I haven't found any of my maps anywhere else since then.

    Another trick I've noticed a lot at the Guild just lately is the use of a map-maker's mark - a small graphic design that encompasses either or both the artists initials or an image that means something to the cartographer. Maps are suddenly instantly identifiable at a glance by the mark - a lizard is Ilanthar (one of the Community Leaders), an all-seeing eye is Bogie (I don't think I really need to introduce him!), the elegant THW tangle is 'The Hoarse Whisperer', the powerfully blocky MB tangle is Mixerbach... and so on.

    For myself I'm thinking of designing a very small wood mouse to sit in the bottom left hand corner - my own map-maker's mark, because I am already very widely known at the Guild and to some extent here as 'Mouse', since the idea of my mark actually enhancing the quality of the image rather than detracting from it seriously appeals to me. I just have to be careful that it doesn't look like the mark of a certain rather famous steam locomotive painter (ironically I can't remember his name off the top of my head) whom my dad very much admired, and who always used to hide a tiny mouse somewhere in his painting. He was so famous for it that people would glance at the painting and then almost immediately start looking for the mouse. I bet that was really where the original idea for 'Where's Wally' really came from - did we but know it! ;)
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    Posted By: LoopysueFor myself I'm thinking of designing a very small wood mouse to sit in the bottom left hand corner - my own map-maker's mark, because I am already very widely known at the Guild and to some extent here as 'Mouse', since the idea of my mark actually enhancing the quality of the image rather than detracting from it seriously appeals to me. I just have to be careful that it doesn't look like the mark of a certain rather famous steam locomotive painter (ironically I can't remember his name off the top of my head) whom my dad very much admired, and who always used to hide a tiny mouse somewhere in his painting. He was so famous for it that people would glance at the painting and then almost immediately start looking for the mouse. I bet that was really where the original idea for 'Where's Wally' really came from - did we but know it! ;)


    That would be Terence Cuneo (1907-1996), I think (Wikipedia link; it has further links to sites with his work as well).
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    Yes that's him :)

    Now that I've seen all the stuff about him generally about the place online, I think I need to rethink my map makers mark idea - with respect to the fact that it would be a bit like stealing someone else's mark!

    Back to the drawing board! LOL!
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016 edited
     
    Well, there's always the computer mouse (an optical mouse somehow seems appropriate in this regard :D). Or the never-completed super-heavy German tank from 1944 (Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus), if you're wanting something to scare off copyright violators, perhaps...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    Hmmmn.... Do you think a mouse holding a quill that curls around to nestle it into a circular shape would be too similar? That would reference both my Guild name and my writing/drawing (as opposed to just a mouse). I'd have to work really hard at it, though, or it will end up looking more like a squirrel with a bushy tail!
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    But wouldn't that make the mouse symbol as complex as the drawing it's protecting?! Plus maybe a bit too "Beatrix Potter"? What about a computer mouse "holding" a quill pen instead...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    Oh no I'm definitely not the sugar sweet candy type when it comes to writing stuff (too many get injured and die for it to be a fairy tale), so that wouldn't do at all. I think I will stop hijacking Jim's thread for now, and go away and have a longer think about this.

    Thanks for your help, Wyvern :)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    Well, many long years about, about 1955, I asked my grandmother why she put her name on her paintings instead of using a cartouche like others did. She looked at me over her eyeglasses and pointed that without a name, how will anyone know who painted it ? A cartouche/symbol would require it to be common knowledge. So I'll use my name.

    As for the size of it, I want it around that size so folks cannot pretend they didn't see it. And I have met, and do know 2 people, who do think that way. No name on it, it must be there's, and not the person's who made it or bought it.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    I found it in Irfanview. I'll check into it.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    I'm sinking this and i decided to make one change:

    Hyperlinking from Pinterest or other such share sites is prohibited.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2016
     
    Posted By: Loopysue(too many get injured and die for it to be a fairy tale)

    For a Disney fairy tale, maybe. Many, if not most, of the originals were horrifying and depressing.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016
     
    Posted By: JimPHyperlinking from Pinterest or other such share sites is prohibited.
    Sounds like a good idea.

    Can anyone enlighten me what the point of this PInterest is? I thought it was just some kind of social bookmarking service? (I.e. useless to me), but their website is about as useful and informative as a parking ticket. Do they sell/steal/violate stuff too?
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016
     
    Sue pointed out upthread they don't seem to care much for other people's copyright.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016 edited
     
    Say for example I was looking for a set of blinds for my office and found an image on Google that I rather liked. I click the image, but because its already been pinned to a Pinterest board I'm taken to Pinterest, and not the site that's actually selling the blinds. I can get to the vendor's site, but only by going through Pinterest. Doing so, however, means that I would have to create a Pinterest account for myself, because they have a forced logon policy. So you can't go around them, and you can't go through them without getting a nice bright yellow tag in your ear.

    Well I don't want a nice bright yellow tag in my ear, metaphorical or not!

    The whole thing is just a huge control point that's rapidly taking over the entire web as more and more images are collected without the owner's knowledge or permission - in most cases by people who have nothing better to do with their lives than make virtual notice boards of pretty pictures of outlandish cup cakes and impractical shoes.

    When I first started noticing how regularly my research was being affected by this virtual brick wall dividing me from my source information about a month back, I didn't know what Pinterest was either, so I searched for information the regular way - by words rather than pictures. That was when I came across a blog that seems to no longer exist, in which a system of advertising income was described. Apparently Pinterest either had, or planned to have, a piece of software that tracks visitors through their site so that when I click the blinds I want to buy, and which I found by Google's image search engine, I am forced to go through Pinterest just to get to the vendor, and Pinterest then charge for advertising the blinds. It wasn't clear to me just how the money was to be acquired, or from who, but there were lots of shocked and outraged comments on that blog about how it was bold as brass daylight robbery, because ultimately the customer will end up paying - one way or another.

    I bet they were quite keen to have that particular blog removed, and they must be making a lot of money somehow to have the power to get it removed when it was causing quite a deal of excitement.

    I totally disagree with anyone linking to or 'borrowing' even a thumbnail of my images, but if this advertising lark is what Pinterest have in mind for the future, then I'm going to do all I can to avoid having any of my author's webpage maps pinned up there on those boards, because I'm probably going to be struggling hard enough to make money from my writing with all the tax and fluctuating sales, without Pinterest suddenly starting to make demands on me for advertising my books without my knowledge or consent.

    Another view is this - that people who pin stuff rarely ever give proper credit to the artist, and can make up their own comment - taking whatever kudos they fancy for themselves. So not only is pinning stealing the image as far as I'm concerned, it gets a whole bunch of words on it that you never intended should ever be associated with it.

    Other than that I'd have to create an account to give you any more details, and I'm just not going to do it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016
     
    So, to sum it up in one word: Evil. I mean, Facebook are definitely evil too, but at least there seem to be a benefit to use it (For a certain definition of benefit. In my case there are some, but it is minuscule, so I stay mostly away).


    I did find a DMCA form on their site though, so I guess one could file those, US laws demand they respect those, right? But it sounds like the site would be a nightmare to navigate to identify such material. Sounds like a prime candidate for any blocklist.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016 edited
     
    Then again, if an image that shows up in a Google Images search is a Pinterest-pinned image from another site, it's almost guaranteed the image from that other site will also be on Google Images. The Pinterest-borne image may just appear earlier in the list (or matrix) of images due to some savvy search engine optimization (SEO) algorithm that Pinterest uses. You can usually see the site for the image by hovering your pointer over the image without clicking. No one is forced to use or go to Pinterest.

    If you prefer, just avoid it entirely in a Google search. If you add -site:pinterest.com to your search terms then Google will not return any results from Pinterest. You can "chain" these if, for example, you want to search for maps but you don't want results from Pinterest or from Reddit, your search terms would look something like this: dungeon map -site:pinterest.com -site:reddit.com . Google will not include anything from Pinterest or Reddit in it's search results.

    Alternatively, if you use the site:somesite.com filter without the minus sign (hyphen) then the search results will only include items found on the indicated site. Naturally, you would replace somesite.com with the actual website domain you want to include (or exclude if you precede "site:" with a hyphen).

    Note: I don't believe you can "chain" more than one site when filtering FOR a site, probably because, while you may mean "site x OR site y", Google is probably trying to perform a logical AND,  but that's just an educated guess.

    I hope that helps.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016
     
    Thanks Dogtag :)

    That's extremely useful to know, since I'd rather not see pages and pages of things that I cannot have... if you see what I mean.

    It also means that I can be more specific if I ever need to go chasing a map that I've been told has been pinned - without having to create an account. Presumably then I'd use Google and enter the search term with site:pinterest.com after it.

    @ Remy - I didn't use the word 'evil', but that is what I meant.
    • CommentAuthorJay_NOLA
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016
     
    I've seen them put up free wallpapers from other sites and require you to log in to just be abe to view the image. When i can just go to the wallpaer page and download the image for free.

    They basically make you pay a few just to download or get the information to download a image and what is worse is that most image searches will go to there page I noticed with search pages and won't even show the original page they lifted the image from and make you go to Pinterest.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016
     
    I haven't noticed any new web crawler events from that site... but I will continue to watermark all of my maps with:

    "Jim's map, free only. NOT for re-sale."

    Not that I want to, but the buzzards leave me no choice.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2016
     
    @ Jay_NOLA - like Dogtag says, you can type " -site:pinterest.com" after your search term to make sure you don't get any Pinterest images presented to you in the Google search, and the wallpapers will still be there - linked to the original site.

    @ Jim - for the time being, no there isn't, but I'm still hoping that if enough of us refuse to create accounts, and constantly exclude Pinterest from our search results (as I plan to do from now on), they will eventually die a natural death when the next 'in thing' comes along. I'm hoping its just a fad.