Creating a Symbol Set

Lorelei · October 2016

Ok, i have stupid question....but I am currently discussing making a map for a potential client in the Netherlands - I would be making a regional map and they would then like to be able to alter the map in the future - which means, obviously, i sell them full rights to said map. My question is this....I intend on using ONLY CC3 symbols on this map, using multiple Annuals on this map - if I create a Symbol Set with all the symbols i incorporate into this particular map, would the client, if they didn't have the Annuals, be able to utilize the map if i sent them the .fcw and the Symbol Set itself if they do not have the Annuals available to them? (Does this make any sense?)

Dogtag · October 2016

You know those red X's people see on their maps sometimes...?

If they don't have the annual issues you use to create the map, I'm afraid they'll see red X's in their FCW wherever you use the annual symbols or bitmap fills.

Now, that won't happen if you include the actual symbols and fills (PNGs/BMPs) in the proper folder structure and they install them in the proper folder structure, but I'm willing to bet that providing the symbols themselves would violate the license or terms of use for the annuals (like packaging a commercial, licensed, font file with a document), so that's something someone from PF should address.

Lorelei · October 2016

Yeah, i would not provide them the symbols themselves. I just thought MAYBE it would work using a symbol set. Eh....i hope they have all the annuals

Thanks, Dogtag.

Dogtag · October 2016

I think the symbol sets reference the PNGs (they seem like they might be specialized map files). I could be wrong. But, even if that isn't the case and the symbols are embedded into the symbol set, I suspect that's the same thing license-wise as providing PNG files.

Loopysue · October 2016

I'd be careful with that kind of deal if I were you, Lorelei.

There was a thread on CG just a couple of weeks ago. Someone passed on their original unflattened (layers welded together and no longer editable) file along with the exported image. He wasn't acknowledged as the author and no mention was made of his having drawn the map anywhere.

The general consensus of opinion was that the original should never be handed over. Its normal for the person buying the map to return to the original cartographer to do any alterations. All the PS users on the Guild only sell the exported images.

Lorelei · October 2016

Yeah, that makes sense. Hmmm.....well, i should wait until I speak with them tomorrow to check if they have all the Annuals available to them before i start pulling my hair out. I just LOVE all the different styles the earlier Annuals affords me when working with CC3. I sure wish they would be updated for CC3+ sometime soon.

Dogtag · October 2016

Lorelei wrote:which means, obviously, i sell them full rights to said map.

And Loopysue replied:I'd be careful with that kind of deal if I were you, Lorelei.

There was a thread on CG just a couple of weeks ago. Someone passed on their original unflattened (layers welded together and no longer editable) file along with the exported image. He wasn't acknowledged as the author and no mention was made of his having drawn the map anywhere.

I would expect that, if a client purchases full rights to an image then they're be under no obligation to acknowledge the original artist, who literally sold that right.

Loopysue · October 2016

Just as long as you know you'll be losing everything, so charge them accordingly.

Dogtag · October 2016

Lorelei whistfully lamented:I just LOVE all the different styles the earlier Annuals affords me when working with CC3. I sure wish they would be updated for CC3+ sometime soon.

They're working on it. I agree, though, the Annuals add so much.

Lorelei · October 2016

Posted By: LoopysueJust as long as you know you'll be losing everything, so charge them accordingly.

Thank you

We haven't discussed the details yet...i've a phone call planned for tomorrow morning. So, I will have to see.....If they would agree to acknowledge me as the artist of the original map and they meet a VERY GOOD price, then i would be willing to allow them to alter my map to their own specifications in the future. Maybe. Again, I think it would depend upon the price and just how much work i would be putting into the project.

Tomorrow I shall have some negotiating to do or I will pass. Thankfully WK, will be giving me full credit for the extensive project I am doing for them and their products can be found in many FLGS throughout the country. I'm good with that

Thanks for having my back.

Loopysue · October 2016

Well - good luck with it, Lorelei.

Monsen · October 2016

Posted By: LoreleiIf they would agree to acknowledge me as the artist of the original map and they meet a VERY GOOD price, then i would be willing to allow them to alter my map to their own specifications in the future.

It is not uncommon for a business to wish to purchase full (even exclusive) rights to a work they have commissioned. As for acknowledging you as the original artist, most companies would do so, but only in some sort of reference listing or something, not along with the actual artwork. (Try figuring out who made the default CC3 overland artwork. It isn't difficult to find if you go looking for it, but it is not very prominently displayed either.) But, then again, it is all down to the price they are willing to pay, giving away rights should never be free.

JimP · October 2016

A png would work for copyright, but from your OP they want more than that.

Hmmm... but what about pngs of different resolutions ? That way the could 'zoom in'.

Loopysue · October 2016

Just a side note here, but they'd have to be pretty experienced CC3 users to be able to modify the map themselves... and as a curious additional thought - picture a newbie to the forum presenting a map for view in a few months time, and asking for advice on how to do something - the map being so obviously one of Lorelei's! LOL!

JimP · October 2016

There is that.

Vintyri · October 2016

Ralf hasn't chimed in here yet, but I'm 100% sure (based on exchanges with Ralf and Simon) that distributing ProFantasy's symbols to your client in symbol sets that you make is a license and copyright violation.

However, if you really do decide that you want to sell your original FCW files, then you could tell the clients that they need to buy and install such and such ProFantasy products to be able to use your maps in FCW format.

That still leaves one problem, of course. If your maps are done with CC3+ and you are using material from annuals that you have converted yourself, that might be more than your client can handle, because you wouldn't be able to distribute your conversions legally either.

Lorelei · October 2016

Thanks Mark. I passed on the project as I could not meet their deadline. I discussed with them the options to purchase the Annuals themselves, then it wouldn't be an issue, as they seem to want to mix up symbol sets. I explained exactly what your last sentence above states to them earlier today - as even though i passed on the project, it is still not possible to alter the bitmaps or symbols without violating the copyright. And as I do have a fulltime job, creating new bitmap fills to their specs is more work than I currently have time for. hopefully someone else can help them out. I gave a few names to the person i spoke to and hopefully she's reached out to them

Again, thanks for the info

Ralf · October 2016

As Dogtag and Mark have said, you cannot distribute our symbols to the client, our EULA does not allow that. But if they purchase the necessary products, you can of course give them the FCW file(s) and allow them to modify your map in the future. That is part of the agreement between you and the client.

LadieStorm · October 2016

Well, as.I am the one that tentatively ended up with this commission, I've already made.sure they realize that to be able to use the FCW, they would have to purchase/install what ever products I use for themselves. They do seem to be perfectly willing to do so, however...because some of what they want I think I can only do through cd3, which they currently don't have. The client did tell me, however, to let them know what they needed to purchase, and they would.

Which reminds me.... Do any of the annuals have modern symbols? I may be in need of an air traffic control tower. And a way to create a runway...

Loopysue · October 2016

Gracious! You sound like your mapping Schiphol Airport!!!!

Good luck with it Storm

Dogtag · October 2016

Symbol Set 3 is modern symbols and includes some drawing tools for modern roads, such as asphalt and traffic lines.

LadieStorm · October 2016

Is it compatible with cc3+?

Monsen · October 2016

Yes. SS3 is the one I used primarily for my competition battle map.

LadieStorm · October 2016

Good to know!

Vintyri · October 2016

The Dundjinni Archives Vol. 3 already are available. The release includes a large library of modern and science fiction symbols and fills. Vol. 3 integrates into SS3.

Your clients can download Vol. 3 and use it, just as you can, making red Xs a non-problem.

Nacon4 · October 2016

Posted By: DogtagSymbol Set 3 is modern symbols and includes some drawing tools for modern roads, such as asphalt and traffic lines.

Symbol Set 3 has it's own .pdf to tell you how to install the symbols? And please tell me it can be used with DD3?

Thank you, in advance!

LLAP

Nacon4

Monsen · October 2016

Like all the symbol sets, SS3 doesn't come with much documentation, because everything behaves like the core program. It lets you make modern overland maps, which functions just like core CC3, and floorplans, which functions just as dungeons. The installer handles all the set-up, so you shouldn't need installation instructions.

And yes, it can be used with DD3, but DD3 isn't required. If you saw my battlemap in Shessar's competition, that was a mix between SS3 and DD3.

Dogtag · October 2016

Strangely, however, to create new SS3 maps using SS3 tools you need to choose a Floorplans type of map in the New Map Wizard, even if you're making a street-level map.

Nacon4 · October 2016

Thank you both, gentlemen! Your advice is invaluable as always!

LLAP

Nacon4

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Creating a Symbol Set

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