Upgrading PC - whats best for CC3+?

Mappy · September 2016

Gday everyone.
I have been ferreting away some spare money and am aiming to upgrade some of the components in my PC in November.
Just wondering if I could have some info on what are the best components to upgrade for an increase in CC3+ performance.

I assuming the video card still has little impact on performance but I was not planning on upgrading that anyways.

So I guess the other main players are CPU and RAM, I'm aiming to get these:

Speedy CPU
Excessive RAM

What's the maximum RAM that CC3+ can now utilise? I'm sure 32GB is total overkill for CC3+ but does extra RAM mean I could save/export at higher resolutions?

Any thoughts on the CPU?

Would be great to hear feedback from any of the CC3+ developers who would know all the inner workings of CC3+.

Thanks
Mike

Monsen · September 2016

CC3+ is still a 32-bit program, so it can't address more than 4GB of ram, just make sure to have a full 4GB available to CC3+ alone, and you'll be fine. Exports are RAM bound, but that 4GB limit is the maximum, extra memory beyond that won't help you make higher resolution exports.

As for CPU, effects depends on that quite heavily. I don't know how well the various effects can handle multi-threading, but that particular CPU has a very nice single-core performance as well, so I believe it is a good choice, better than many of the models with more cores, as they usually have lower single-core performance.

As for the video card, CC3+ doesn't use that at all.

I ordered a new computer myself a few days ago, with the same processor, and 32GB of Ram.

Dogtag · September 2016

Agreed, Core i7 is a good processor. I've got the 6700HQ in my notebook and it's very high performance.

Monsen · September 2016

Posted By: DogtagAgreed, Core i7 is a good processor.

Just remember that all I7's aren't the same. The 6700HQ has a much poorer single-core performance than the 6700K for example, while only slightly worse on multi-core performance. (It is still a very nice CPU though). The ones with more cores tends to be even poorer on single-core performance.

Dogtag · September 2016

Very true. But, then, I wasn't suggesting anyone buy a 6700HQ, which is a mobile processor anyway, over a 6700K. I was just saying that I'm pleased with the performance of my i7, which happens to be that model.

Monsen · September 2016

I know, but your statement could make people think than any i7 is good, and then even go for a more expensive one (Which may actually be a bad choice). So I just wanted to clarify a bit.

I just confirmed with Joe Slayton (the current CC3+ developer) that the base engine is single-threaded, which means clock speed is important. In that regard, 6700K is actually much better than both the 6800K and 6900K, both more expensive models. Parts of the effects are multi-threaded, so I guess that for some workloads, the additional cores of those processors might help out, but due to their lower single-core performance, you are also sacrificing a lot, so I am not even sure you would see a net gain, and if so, a rather small one.

JimP · September 2016

My limited experience with multi-thread software, not on home computers, is that the software has to be written to take advantage of multi-cores. Otherwise the software uses just one. I didn't write any of it, but I was one of the console operators.

Loopysue · September 2016

Well... there may still be some people out there with only one core

Mappy · September 2016

Posted By: LoopysueWell... there may still be some people out there with only one core

Hehheh I had a feeling you were working on an older computer Sue, and a laptop too if I remember correctly? Your 100+ sheet map of Merelan City must get it smoking!

Thanks guys, this is exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping for. Good to know I'm on the right page. Monsen, if you are getting a new PC with the same processor as I intend to get, I must be doing something right

Currently I have a i5-2500K @ 3.30GHz and it must be about 5 or 6 years old now. To be fair it's still pretty snappy but looking forward to seeing what a new motherboard and new CPU can do!

Once I've saved enough money of course....

If I can think up some suitable test (time to export a map or some such thing) I'll do an old vs new time trial and post the results in November.

Loopysue · September 2016

Well, no. Its a three year old laptop with an i3 intel in it.

the problem I have is the 50 year old cataloguing system! Steam pours out of that all right, whenever I need to recall where I put something in all those sheets! LOL

Monsen · September 2016

Posted By: MappyCurrently I have a i5-2500K @ 3.30GHz and it must be about 5 or 6 years old now. To be fair it's still pretty snappy but looking forward to seeing what a new motherboard and new CPU can do!

You should absolutely see some improvement from that one, but don't expect a revolution though. I am upgrading from an i7-2600 (@3.4Ghz) myself, and numbers tell me that I should expect a roughly 50% improvement. Since you have an i5 from the same generation, you are going to see a bit more improvement than that though.

Are you running your system from an SSD btw? I recommend making sure the CC3+ data directory is on an SSD, as this speeds up the loading of fills and symbols (CC3+ does use a memory cache, saving some disk lookups, but a SSD also helps. (Especially if you have a fast one))

Posted By: MappyIf I can think up some suitable test (time to export a map or some such thing) I'll do an old vs new time trial and post the results in November.

Maybe I should do that. I got shipping confirmation of my new system today, so I should be able to get a test done in a week's time, when the new system is set up. As I mentioned above, I don't expect a revolution though, just a good general improvement.

Mappy · September 2016

Posted By: MonsenAre you running your system from an SSD btw? I recommend making sure the CC3+ data directory is on an SSD, as this speeds up the loading of fills and symbols (CC3+ does use a memory cache, saving some disk lookups, but a SSD also helps. (Especially if you have a fast one))

Yep. I paid an arm and a leg for a 256gb Intel SSD when I got this PC built 5 or 6 years ago so have windows etc installed on that. SSD's have come down in price heaps so I will upgrade to a Samsung 512GB SSD and reinstall windows and all programs on that.

Will be good to know how your new system runs, good luck!

Monsen · September 2016

Well, I just got done installing CC3 on my new computer.

I used the REDRAWTIME command on one of my city maps to have CC3+ measure the actual redraw time for the map. With my old system (i7-2600 @ 3.4Ghz), redraw time was 3.9 seconds. With the new system (i7-6700K @ 4.0Ghz) redraw time was 2.2 seconds, so definitely an improvement. I repeated the test a couple of times on each computer to make sure I got consistent results.

Bill · September 2016

Whats really funny is my i7 MacBook Pro with integrated Intel video card and only 8G memory, running Windows 7 in a Fusion 7x 4G VM runs CC3+ like twice as fast as my new Lenovo Yoga 900 i7 with 16G and a higher end video card. And my MacBook is the old 2102 first rentina model... go figure.

Bill

Monsen · September 2016

Twice as fast is surprising, but considering that 8GB is still more than CC3+ RAM ever needs and it doesn't take advantage of the GPU, those two factors are not really important here. The main factor is the CPU, and as I commented above, i7's come in many different varieties. It is quite easy to buy a brand new i7 today that performs worse than a 4 year old one, especially if the old one was a higher end model. The speed of the internal SSD might also factor in a bit because of loading of bitmaps.

JimP · September 2016

I have had the same hardware running Windows, and later on, I formatted and ran linux. The linux install, I didn't have CC2 back then yet, ran software faster. But these days the overhead programs for both Windows and Linux can be lots and lots.

Bill · September 2016

@Monsen - Really its only 4G as the Fusion VM is only configured for 4G. And some of that is consumed for the OS. Either way, I love the software and am mad at ProFantasy for making such an awesome product that my bank account has dwindled because of!!!

Bill

Mappy · September 2016

Posted By: MonsenWell, I just got done installing CC3 on my new computer.

I used the REDRAWTIME command on one of my city maps to have CC3+ measure the actual redraw time for the map. With my old system (i7-2600 @ 3.4Ghz), redraw time was 3.9 seconds. With the new system (i7-6700K @ 4.0Ghz) redraw time was 2.2 seconds, so definitely an improvement. I repeated the test a couple of times on each computer to make sure I got consistent results.

That's a great improvement. Nearly twice as quick. I'll do something similar with one of my maps. If I exist on bread and water I may be able to get the upgrade mid October and will post the results then.

Mappy · October 2016

Gday. Well I have upgraded my PC and nearly finished reinstalling all the programs. Always a nice feeling to have a clean computer with only the essential programs on it. It sure takes ages to get it all the way I want it to be though.

Have done a couple of speed tests with Tackle's Stronghold and the results were not quite as good as yours Monson, but an improvement none the less. Redraw reduced from 4.5 seconds to 3.4 seconds.

What was very encouraging though was the time it took to print to PDF. Using PDF Creator, printing at 720dpi with 2x2 tiling and 10% overlap the time to print reduced from 11m55s to 7m15s. Nearly twice as quick, but not quite.

Ok, back to reinstalling my printer drivers.
cheers
Mike

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Upgrading PC - whats best for CC3+?

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