Research on Dungeon Map Design

I'm probably a rather methodical person (as you might have guessed from the title), so instead of creating some maps willy-nilly (there's of course nothing wrong with that "funhouse" approach, I just wanted to approach Map Design more methodically), I decided to look for more information on (at the moment primarily) Dungeon Map Design.



I found http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/13085/roleplaying-games/jaquaying-the-dungeon to be an interesting series (particularly with regards to player agency as players make - meaningful - choices about which paths to take as they gradually uncover the map). It focuses on "Jaquaying" the dungeon (creating non-linear dungeons), e.g. by providing multiple entrances to the dungeon, using loops, ...



http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?168563-Dungeon-layout-map-flow-and-old-school-game-design is shorter but focuses on a similar topic, it describes an interesting method to represent dungeons in a more abstract way.



At the moment, I've only partially read The Architect DM series (e.g. http://www.critical-hits.com/blog/2010/10/20/the-architect-dm-give-it-some-structure/), as the relevant articles are a little bit "strewn across" (http://www.critical-hits.com/blog/tag/architect-dm/page/5/ seems to be the most practical starting point) but I liked what I read so far. It seems to focus on a more realistic design and is also broader in its scope (inns, cities, ...).



Not yet read/used:

http://paizo.com/products/btpy82tc?A-Magical-Society-Guide-to-Mapping

https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=2844[url]
https://www.rpglibrary.org/utils/meddemog/[/url]

(all three resources found on https://forums.obsidianportal.com/discussion/2518/how-to-make-maps-for-your-campaign-for-free

http://www.campaignmastery.com/blog/maps-have-three-parts-part-on/

http://dungeonofsigns.blogspot.co.at/2013/07/map-design-thoughts.html

http://zfgc.com/forum/index.php?topic=41439.0 (remove patterns)

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/33815/how-do-i-build-interesting-dungeons

https://bankuei.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/dungeons-theory-and-design/ (Dungeon Design Series)

http://www.wired.com/2013/12/fantasy-maps-cartography-tips-jonatha-roberts-game-of-thrones/

http://io9.gizmodo.com/10-rules-for-making-better-fantasy-maps-1680429159

Tome of Ultimate Mapping



If you are aware of other resources or "simply" tips, I'd of course love to hear about them, too.

Comments

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited August 2016
    My main approach when designing dungeons is that they must make sense from an in-game perspective. Thinking of stuff like who was the original creator, why did he build the dungeon, why did he build the dungeon the way he did, what kind of resources to use on dungeon building was it reasonable that he had access to. Stuff like that.
    And then, I consider re-purposing, people or monsters moving in after the original design had been abandoned. Why did these elements move in, how do they survive (that is, until the player characters came along anyway).
    To me, the best dungeons are the ones you can fully explain (preferably without going too much into magic territory, unless it is a really high-magic world or it was reasonable that the constructor had access to a boatload of magic). They are after all something that was built for a purpose, so they shouldn't be designed for the player characters needs. And they shouldn't be filled with traps just to hurt the PC's unless it made sense that the original design actually had these traps. I also want to know how the traps have kept up all those years if they still are active.

    Once I have those elements worked out, I start planning the map.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    I used to have this discussion with my personal tutor back at art college on a regular basis. My point of view was; All I want to do is paint the pictures in my head that are driving me crazy because they can't get out if I have to spend my time reading about people who lived and died hundreds of years ago, and feeling progressively inferior because I know I will never paint or sculpt like Michelangelo or Da Vinci...

    His argument was: You will fail the course if you don't pass your art history exam.

    I failed the course, but I truly believe that my paintings and maps are the better for not having all that... stuff in my head telling me what to do like I don't have a mind of my own.

    Creativity... true creativity... is unfettered and free. It knows not (and cares not) about 'the rules'. LOL

    My advice?

    If you want to be truly original and potentially great (and not just a copyist), then throw away the books and get on with the drawing.
  • Don't worry about drawing inside the lines unless you are going to do it for industrial or commercial billboards. Thats what I was taught in the one drawing class I actually accomplished something. The people I drew looked like people in that class.

    I have been in one castle over in Mallorca, and the rooms werre not situated in a 'standard' way. The kitchen was next to the banquet hall, and the storage just below there was for food. But the rest didn't seem to have much ryhme or reason.

    One I come up with where the defenses are in a dungeon, I place other things based off of that. Boss' rooms away from the entrance, and next to the secret passageway out. Guard rooms near the entrance. Other rooms scattered about.

    But once abandoned, the rooms aren't used the same way by monsters that move in and take over.
  • You may want to try to find an old book called "Central Casting:Dungeons!". It is out of print now, but there are pdfs available online. It is a book to randomly generate a dungeon, including the original use of the rooms, etc. It has table after table detailing how to connect rooms, how big they are, how many exits, everything. I have used it several times, and with a little common sense, makes some outstanding dungeons that make sense.
  • edited August 2016
    Thanks for the suggestions so far. I especially like the internal consistency approach and the "it was originally designed this way but over time that changed" approach. I'll also try to look up "Central Casting: Dungeons!", it sounds promising.



    A note about how I approach most creative endeavors - not to convince you that it's the "right" approach but to explain why I'm looking for this information.



    If I stare at a blank page, a blank page stares right back at me. That page pretty much resembles my mind at that moment (blank). I have no idea what to do next. It's probably similar to the "Creative Limitation" discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_limitation.



    I usually need one or two catalysts to get me started.



    First, I need "nuggets", little stepping stones, to get my thoughts rolling. I usually have a list of interesting ideas at hand. Some I think of while doing completely different things, some are inspired by others. Note that I don't want to copy someone else's work, I just use snippets of it to generate ideas (e.g. multiple entrances, a place where it's possible to preview later parts of the dungeon (if you can somehow prevent teleporting), a pathway that's too small for most but not all creatures,...). Even if I wanted to, I probably couldn't recreate them recognizably similar anyways.



    Second, when I get stuck using the first method, I like to have a few "signposts" at hand that can point me in the right direction (Kind of like a meal: "I want to use this kind of room, what could go well with that?"). Of course, breaking the rules sometimes is the best course of action but even in these cases, I've found that it helps if I can build off an existing scenario ("So normally, I would do that. But what if I do the complete opposite instead? What if I tweak it?"). After all, they are just rough guidelines, suggestions, not strict rules.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    Ooooh, I'm so sorry Stephan. I misunderstood you. I thought you were expecting to establish for yourself a step by step guide on how to do it :)

    So its the blank page syndrome? 'Writer's block'?

    I rarely ever get it - have quite the opposite problem in fact, but when I do, I find that a good stiff walk, either alone or with friends, is enough to get everything going again. As for startup ideas, do you day dream? I think my overabundance of imagination at times may be down to the fact that I daydream a lot. Its not as counterproductive as you might think - not if you're exercising your imagination with the intention of using it. A bit like a warm up exercise, if you see what I mean :)
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    I generally follow the same sort of general process as Monsen. It really helps me to generate a rough "original" sketch and then I can make logical changes to it based what's happened to it since. Caves? Catacombs? Mines? Ruins? Smuggler's den? It all becomes fertile ground for design when I know the backstory, even if it's just a rough history.
  • Draw a room with several exits/entrances. Then decide, whic one goes to the surface, which goes to a storeroom, etc.
  • edited August 2016
    Thanks for the suggestions!



    No problem, I probably should have explained what I wanted to accomplish in more detail in the original post. :)



    So just to make it clear: I'm not looking for a "this is the completely correct and only way to design a dungeon" blueprint but for puzzle pieces I can creatively play with (including cutting them in half or including a LEGO piece) in case I don't know how to proceed.



    I'm looking for inspiration now so that I can easily refer to it in case I come close to "writer's block". I want to avoid being stuck and having to frantically look for an idea in order to move forward. I like having lots and lots of different ideas at my disposal.



    I do daydream in the sense of "making (ridiculous) stories up". I think I have a more "textual" imagination (not a spatial one) if that makes any sense. I can come up with ideas but in order to know how to integrate them, I have to physically see the "idea seeds" in front of me.



    I really like the backstory-first approach as in http://rat-catcher.blogspot.co.at/2012/10/building-random-dungeon-with-central.html, using random, thought-of or "found" seeds to create story ideas and implementing these ideas with my own imagination - using the original intention of the builder and the changes made through time.



    Has anyone had experience with "The Dungeon Alphabet" (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/78409/The-Dungeon-Alphabet)? It probably deals primarily with the more "story-based" aspects of dungeons but maybe it also contains some clues on the design of dungeons itself.
  • jslaytonjslayton Moderator, ProFantasy Mapmaker
    One way to a bit of brainstorming is to use a combination of geomorph templates to lay out some areas to play with and perhaps a random encounter generator to get some ideas of things to go into the rooms. It's easy enough to block or change geomorph blocks as you refine your ideas. Ceremonial areas would probably be more symmetrical (bilateral or radial). And if at all possible, involve a cow.
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