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    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2016 edited
     
    hey, i kinda have a bit of a question thats been bugging me. you see i like to get very detailed in my map making. so detailed that i end up placing every tree by hand. something that is quite tedious and time consuming. but i noticed you had a forest tool. a tool that allows me to make a contor like area where it will automatically place trees. only problem with this is that i cannot edit the size of the trees. so they end up being far far to big. i also cannot edit what is inside of the woods. as i like to have a larger mix of trees including dead, half dead, and fruit trees.

    so in short hear are my questions.

    1 how do you edit the size of the trees the tool makes. as for the life of me i cannot figure out how to do that.

    2 how do you edit what it spawns. or is that even possible?

    also i might as well show you how far i got on the map. it kinda took me about a month of on an off work.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fwxmqn40ybvkp4v/North%20Vs%20South.JPG?dl=0
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalf
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016
     
    You need to change the drawing's default symbol scale to change the scale of the forest too. Do so under File > Drawing Properties.
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016
     
    thank you, i been unable to figure out how to edit it. as unlike normal symbols this works more like a contor. so right click dose not allow for any editing. still any chance their is a way to edit the tool so you could get a larger verity of trees. or is that something that is hard wired into the program?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016 edited
     
    @Ralf: A couple questions about this.

    1. Can macro tools be copied and customized like regular tools? I presume yes.

    2. Is the macro saved with the tool, or does the tool call a macro from the FCW32.mac file?

    3. Can the symbols be changed by editing the macro?

    4. Is there a macro command for scaling symbols?
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalf
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016
     
    1. Yes. Note that macro tools usually have three components in the System/Drawtools/NameOFStyle/ folder:
    a) the tool itself (dto file)
    b) the macro (dtm file)
    c) a preview drawing, that displays the tool visually (FCW)
    Look at /System/Drawtools/Overland Mike Schley/Terrain Default, Forest Decid.* for an example.

    2. It is saved separately (see above), though longer macros should probably better be saved in FCW32.mac (the macro file) and just be called from the drawing tool macro.

    3./4. The macro just calls the forest setting changes the selection method (so the user doesn't have to select anything), and then calls the "Fill with Symbols" (FOREST) command.

    This is the macro from the example above:

    FORESTLOAD @system\fillers\CC3_MikeSchley_Deciduous.FIL
    SELSAVE
    SELBYP
    FOREST
    SELREST

    Basically the tool itself allows you to draw a smooth polygon, then the macro is run afterwards which uses FOREST to fill the just drawn area with forest symbols.

    The symbols used and their scale is set in the forest setting. See "Draw > Fill with Symbols..." and "Load" the setting CC3_MikeSchley_Deciduous.FIL to see it in action.

    The field at the top points to the symbol catalog that contains all the symbols used for the forest. Opening and scaling these symbols will change the scale of the forest (i highly recommend to make a backup copy before messing with these). Below is the specific list of symbol used for this forest tool.

    As to how the process works, imagine the forest area to be filled as a grid of squares with one square being a "Unit" (the Unit size in the settings defines how large such a unit is on the map. The CX and CY in the symbol list tells CC3+ how large the symbol is in "units". The algorithm will start with the largest pieces and try to fill up the area as well as possible, then move to the next smaller piece, and so on until the forest area is filled. Then it will use the pieces marked as "single" to form the edges of the forest.

    You see, the forest tool is quite complicated! But it can be manipulated in many different ways and can potentially be used to fill areas with all kinds of symbols.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016 edited
     
    I think you broke my brain, but thanks.

    At least you did it at the end of the week.

    That's a lot to chew over and eventually experiment with! Once the gray matter in my skull stops spinning.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016
     
    ummm would it be possible to do a step by step tutorial on it. as i never messed with or created macros with this program. one of the few things i have yet to do. so i find it kinda hard to understand your example.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016 edited
     
    You might want to check out Joachim de Ravenbel's awesome tutorials on macros. I'll be honest, I've never worked through them myself but I've used some of his other tutorials and they're clear, informative, and very polished! Be aware his site is bi-lingual (French/English) so it might throw you off at first, but the English content and links are there.

    Also, the Tome of Ultimate Mapping has detailed information about macros. It's another purchase but if you want to get the most out of the Profantasy software library, I highly recommend it. It has information on pretty much everything and includes tips, tricks, and tutorials.

    I hope that helps.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016
     
    well i took a look at the info. only to find myself scratching my head even further. most of what i read had little to do with the thing i wanted. as it kinda jumped from making a line of symbol's to advanced shapes. skiping the marco i wanted in order to create a new fill command. so could any of you give me an example marco for creating the basics of a fill command. as from what i got is, you need to create 2 things. the marco and then tie it to the list of symbols. and everything else kinda just went over my head.
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2016
     
    ya... to be blunt i wanted to create something simple. it might not be as good as a contror style fill. but i that has to be quicker then putting them down all by hand. it is simply this, taking a line, putting a symbol on it. i see the example in the book. but i have no idea how to make it work. as it just crashes. maby this is due to having the newest version of it. thou i am finding this to be quite frustrating. could someone just give me an example of how the marco should look. as learning this might take more time then just placing it by hand. specially considering that i am not good at code.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2016
     
    The macro itself never needs to be changed when used with the forest fill command. The only job of the macro in this case is to load the correct fill style (the first line, so this needs to be changed to point to the fill settings you are going to use), then call the FOREST command which is the actual command to draw/fill the area. The other tree lines deals with changing the selection type, and should be kept as they are.

    To use the forest tool itself you don't need to think about the drawing tool macro at all though, you can just use it straight from the forest options dialog. When you go to Draw -> Fill with symbols you get the forest options dialog which is where all the configuration lies (Ralf mentioned this earlier). From this dialog you can save the settings you make to be able to call them from a macro, but you can also skip the macro part completely and just click the Run Now button instead. This will prompt you to select the entities to be filled with the tool directly, without bothering with any macros. Just make sure to have an appropriate entity to be filled drawn before using the command.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2016 edited
     
    In other words, if you want it broken down into steps:

    To draw a filled forest via menu command (instead of a macro-enabled drawing tool):
    1. Choose the color you want for the background of the forest.
      This is for the smooth polygon that you will fill with trees.
    2. Manually select the correct sheet and layer by clicking the corresponding fields in the status bar and picking them from their respective dialogs.
      The exact sheet and layer may vary from map to map, so I'm not specifying them here, though the layer (not sheet) is typically VEGETATION.
    3. Draw the polygon where you want to place your forest.
    4. Select Draw>Fill with Symbols from the menu bar.
      The Forest Options dialog displays. It has a lot of fields and buttons so it may look intimidating, but "Keep Calm and Map On."
    5. Click the Load button in the bottom-left of the dialog.
      The Filler options dialog displays. It is a file browser window that opens to folder with various pre-set forest fills to choose from. (These are what the forest drawing tool loads via macro. Different map styles use different fills).
    6. Choose a forest fill, and then click Open.
      For example, for a mixed forest, select CC3_Mixed.FIL (You may not see the .FIL at the end of the file name, depending on your Windows settings). The dialog closes and loads the forest fill you selected.
    7. Click Run now
      The dialog closes and the cursor changes so you can select the polygon you want to fill.
    8. Select the polygon you drew earlier, then right-click, and then select Do It from the pop-up menu.
      The polygon should fill with your selected forest.

    If you want to create your own, custom forest fill (either from scratch or by modifying existing settings) here is a START. There's too much here for me to detail everything in this post.

    To set up a custom filled forest:
    1. Select Draw>Fill with Symbols from the menu bar.
      The Forest Options dialog displays. Again, remember to "Keep Calm and Map On."
    2. From here, you can load a pre-existing fill and then modify it or you can open a forest catalog and pick stuff from scratch. Do ONE of the following:
        To Modify an Existing Fill
      1. Click the Load button in the bottom-left of the dialog.
        The Filler options dialog displays.
      2. Choose a forest fill, and then click Open.
        The dialog closes and loads the forest fill you selected.
        OR
        To Create a New Fill
      3. Click the Browse button near the top.
        The Symbol Catalog dialog displays.
      4. Choose a forest catalog, and then click Open.
        The dialog closes and loads the forest catalog you selected into the Forest Options dialog box.
    3. [Optional if modifying, Required if creating] In the Symbol Name list (the ten, numbered text fields), click the ellipsis button next to the first field.
      The Select Symbol dialog displays, showing all the symbols in the catalog you just opened.
    4. [Optional if modifying, Required if creating] Pick a symbol from the catalog, and then click OK. You may just want to start with the first one.
      The symbol name loads into that first text box in the list.
    5. [Optional if modifying, Required if creating] Do the same for the remaining text boxes in the list, choosing a different symbol for each.

      This is where I have to stop getting into detail, sorry. What follows now are general guidelines to help you figure the rest out.

    6. Click the Help button to open the help topic on this dialog box. You will also definitely want to look at the link at the bottom of the help topic that opens the Creating "Fill with Symbols" settings help topic.
    7. Take another look at Ralf's post, above. Hopefully the "Unit size", CX, and CY stuff will make a little more sense now.
    8. Set up your fill the way you want and then click Save to save it for whenever you want to use it.
    9. As Monsen pointed out, above, you can click Run now to run it from the dialog. Note: If you do, be sure to have a polygon already drawn so you can select it when you run the fill.

    Sorry I can't go into more detail; I've never done this myself, before just now. There's a lot to this command, but hopefully this can help get you started.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: rman88... has to be quicker then putting them down all by hand.

    Another, much less-involved option than modifying the fill, yet still quicker than placing all the symbols by hand individually, is to place a section of the forest by hand and then copy and paste the section. You can even paste the section a couple of times, then reselect a larger area and then paste that, depending on how big your forest is. This has it's own quirks to overcome but it can be faster than placing each symbol individually.

    If some of the symbols somehow end up overlapping in the wrong order, you can select Symbols>Sort Symbols in Map from the menu bar. Select the symbols to correct, and then right-click and select Do It.

    If, you are concerned about the scale of the trees after you place a forest, either with the macro-enabled tool, via the fill dialog, or by hand, you can select Symbols>Scale Symbols in Map to adjust the scale in one go. Just like the sort command, select the symbols to correct, and then right-click and select Do It. Keep in mind that it could cause issues with the layout since symbols are scaled in place.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2016
     
    For huge forested areas, I put a color fill, and a few of the type of trees for that forest. Saves me mapping time and redraw time on my 1.2GHz laptop.
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2016
     
    hey thanks for all the help.. thou now i ran into a strange bug. you see whenever i try to load a symbol fill from that menu. it dose not give me the the correct tool to draw the shape i desire. instead it is using the selection mode. as if i was trying to say delete something or alter its stats. and considering that i cannot load a new fill from the symbol catalog or the terrain catalog. so any idea what i am doing wrong hear x.x. as i would love to just use the symbol fill to do this.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2016 edited
     
    As Monsen and I mentioned above, you must draw the polygon (shape) you want to fill before you use that menu command. When you use the menu command and click Run now, CC3 changes the cursor to selection mode so you can pick the polygon (shape) you want to fill.

    I apologize if my post was unclear. I've gone back and edited the steps to try and make it more clear.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2016
     
    As a side note (and sorry to butt in here) I have noticed that for some unknowable reason CC3+ seems to get a bit confused (usually after I have messed something up) and I can't select anything at all, or the wrong tool appears in the command line compared to the one I just clicked.

    I find that saving, closing CC3+ down, and then reopening cures this problem.

    It might have nothing at all to do with what's happening to your forest tool, but then again... it could just as easily be related.

    I have a comparable number of symbols to forests of symbol trees in my map, and this started happening a few days ago - once I was nearing half way to completion.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2016
     
    Posted By: LoopysueAs a side note (and sorry to butt in here) I have noticed that for some unknowable reason CC3+ seems to get a bit confused (usually after I have messed something up) and I can't select anything at all, or the wrong tool appears in the command line compared to the one I just clicked.

    I find that saving, closing CC3+ down, and then reopening cures this problem.

    It might have nothing at all to do with what's happening to your forest tool, but then again... it could just as easily be related.

    I have a comparable number of symbols to forests of symbol trees in my map, and this started happening a few days ago - once I was nearing half way to completion.


    I've had this same thing happen and also use the save, exit, reopen technique to solve the problem....weird glitch.
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2016
     
    sadly that dose not seem to be the case. i only get the selection tool when i use the run now button. reloading it, doesn't do anything to this particular issue. that said i seem to have noticed that i do have a fill style that i saved. but it seems to not be working properly. as even thou it is using a different symbol collection. it is still basically the base mix tree fill. so i have a few questions about each of the components of this tool.

    symbol catalog name. as i can guess, this is the location of the symbol catalog that it should. i used the custom one i made for doing woods. and for some reason it is not working. with the custom fill i made was a carbon copy of the mixed tree fill. and thats not what i wanted.

    unit size. why dose it have a length and with size modifier?

    offset. not to sure what this dose but i know it has to do with automatic placement. as i would like to have a small gap between symbols. giving this feel that the woods is not just row after roll of trees but it also has built in clearings and such.

    symbol's count: not sure what exactly this dose.

    symbol's name: now is this suppose be the name of the symbol being used in the catalog. which should be just tree then number. or is it to represents the base symbols.

    cx and cy: i have no idea what these are.

    also thank you for you patience with me. as i really want to get this to work. even thou it might crash the program. as right now i have over 15000 sprites on my map.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2016 edited
     
    Loopysue wrote:As a side note (and sorry to butt in here) I have noticed that for some unknowable reason CC3+ seems to get a bit confused (usually after I have messed something up) and I can't select anything at all
     
    And Lorelei added:I've had this same thing happen and also use the save, exit, reopen technique to solve the problem....weird glitch.

    I strongly suspect this is not the case here. As Monsen and I have explained, getting the selection cursor after clicking Run now is the expected behavior, much like getting the selection cursor after clicking other commands.

    The now-I-can't-select-anything problem is typically due to a macro getting interrupted before it completes. Many macros save the current selection method, change it to something else so they can do their thing, and then restore it to the saved method. If something stops the macro before it can finish then the selection method you were using before is not restored. This has been addressed many times on the forum but Shessar, among others, provided a nice, succinct solution that, happily, does not require closing CC3.
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2016 edited
     
    alright, i kinda figured out what was going on. mainly that i overlooked one very important step in it. that is that this dose not create a fill tool. such as a terrain style tool. but instead allows you to use any pre existing shape in to act as a foundation for the fill.

    what i am now ending up with is that while i can use the base fills. i cannot get the custom one to work. the symbol catalog i made was created by using 3 sets of pine and Decid trees. and 1 set of dead, deign and fruit trees. that i labeled tree 1 threw 30.

    i changed the base name to tree 1 and up the count to 30. as their are 30 symbols in the mix. i changed the cx and cy to 1 and 30. as i believe that stands for the number of symbols in the catalog. and long story short. i whenever i use this fill nothing happens. any thought on why this is failing?

    ps, i tried using help but the program is buged. it states i need to click on the image to learn more about each thing. but when i do it it just causes an script error.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalf
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2016
     
    CX and CY do not stand for the number of symbols in the catalog! They define how many units the specific symbol covers. For example in the standard CC3 overland style, a single tree is 1x units, while the big "Forest" symbol covers 6x5 units.

    The count can not go above 10, because you only have 10 "slots" in the list below. This is a limitation of the forest tool.

    It looks like your forest is supposed to be very specific in its tree use (many different trees). This will not work well with the big forest parts (many trees in one symbol). May I suggest to not use a drawing tool for this, but place the symbols individually from the vegetation symbol catalog? You will have much better control and I suspect the results will be much better. Note that you can always properly order your symbols after placing them with the Symbols > Sort Symbols In Map command.
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2016
     
    their is a massive problem with that. and that is that it is very very time consuming. as i prefer the forest to be somewhat representative in scale. causing me to need thousand of symbols placed. in fact the last time i did a count. i had over 27,000 symbols on the map. and i am not even a quarter done with the forest. thou in reality i could avoid doing this by just using the a normal fill. but i prefer to have that nice randomize mesh of trees.

    so saying i should just do it by hand is kinda not that helpful. thou you would think the program would have been able to handle something like this. as it is just the fill command with a larger verity of symbols.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRalf
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2016
     
    An alternative is to create your own big "forest" chunk as a separate symbol, but that would take some more preparation building your own symbols. If you want to go that route, I would suggest making a copy of the symbol catalog "CC3_Vegetation.FSC" in /system/fillers and then working on each symbol to make it fit for your own forest style.
    • CommentAuthorrman88
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2016
     
    thinking on it. it might be just a bit to much extra work. as i am not unfamiliar with creating new symbols. problem with this thou is that in the end. it is taking far far to long to finish this map. for something that to be honest is not exactly needed in a rpg setting. combine that with the fact that the near 30,000 symbols on the map is causing the program to crash. it might be best i just bite the bullet and use a normal fill style. in order to not only get it done. but to make sure the program dose not cause a blue screen.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2016
     
    Don't forget, another alternative to placing everything in the entire forest one at a time is to copy/paste portions of the forest.
    • CommentAuthorAtrivion
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2019
     
    Sorry for the necropost but Ive noticed that Jon Roberts annual overland doesnt have a forest fill like many other overland styles. Been trying to figuring out how to make a .fil file like mike Schley (sorry for butchering the name.. XD ) does. How would i go about creating one or editing say Mikes but adding Jon roberts tree symbols? =)

    First post, woo!
    Hello all =)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2019
     
    Have a look at the last half of Dogtag's post earlier in this thread.
    • CommentAuthorAtrivion
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2019
     
    I did but could never find where Roberts fills are. But I'll look again later today and see if i can figure it out. =)
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2019
     
    Slightly confused here. Are we talking of the Jon Roberts Overland Style pack from CA51, the March 2011 Annual? I ask because it has both a Terrain, Forest and Terrain, Jungle fill already available, and in the form of drawing tools. If so, that would seem to solve the whole problem :)
    • CommentAuthorAtrivion
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2019
     
    Yes it does indeed, but the problem i have with it is its just the treetops that gets added as a flat surface. Which to me doesn't look as nice as adding trees. Theres no trunks! XD
    But I did solve it temporarily by making grouped tree symbols. =D