Getting No Rivers in FT3

I'm using FT3 3.0.12, and I can't seem to get any rivers to show up. I fill basins first, then I do "Find Rivers". When it's done running, When it's done, it shows me the "Select River Length" window. At this point, I still see no rivers on the map, unless I check "Potential River Flow". Then I do see a bunch. If I keep the river image overlay, then I can see those rivers by turning that image overlay on. However, this is just a raster overlay and gets extremely blocky when zoomed in. The vector rivers never seem to show up. I've tried toggling Tools->Rivers->Show River Overlays and changing the values in "Top-Level River Importance (%)" in the Preferences. Neither made any difference at all. Does it matter which map view I use (Gaia, Image Climate, Altitude, etc.)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Comments

  • jslaytonjslayton Moderator, ProFantasy Mapmaker
    It was a bug that showed up from time to time. I don't recall what triggered it, unfortunately.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    Welcome to the forum, TheGreyOwl.

    Would you consider uploading the file, or a similar one with the same problem, so that we can have a play and see if we can work out what's wrong?
  • Posted By: LoopysueWelcome to the forum, TheGreyOwl.

    Would you consider uploading the file, or a similar one with the same problem, so that we can have a play and see if we can work out what's wrong?
    Thanks! Sure, but for some reason it won't let me attach the file. Here's a link to my Dropbox to get it, however.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/55dpwk263m6dqeq/sample.ftw?dl=0
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    I think there may be a problem somewhere. Ralf recently updated the forum so that we could upload .ftw files, but it doesn't seem to be working right now.

    May I ask if you are intending to continue working on the FTW file, or use an export from this file to CC3+?

    The reason I ask is because the rivers are exported as vectors.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    I deleted the river overlay from the sample file and generated a new one with a much finer River Resolution setting (custom set at 10000). This took a while to calculate.

    I then exported a small section of the sample world to CC3+ which is contained in the attached file for you - to illustrate the vector rivers are there, but only visible in the exported file.

    If these vector rivers are supposed to be visible in FTW, then I also have the same problem as you, because I can't see them either. Like you, I can only see the bitmap overlay.
  • Posted By: LoopysueI think there may be a problem somewhere. Ralf recently updated the forum so that we could upload .ftw files, but it doesn't seem to be working right now.

    May I ask if you are intending to continue working on the FTW file, or use an export from this file to CC3+?

    The reason I ask is because the rivers are exported as vectors.
    I was planning on working with it further in FT3, but eventually I'll be exporting parts of the world to CC3+.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    I don't ever recall being able to save the vector rivers as a visible overlay myself, since overlays are by nature bitmaps, but the vector rivers are still there in the file, and will be exported as vectors when you do eventually complete the export. They will not be harmed in any way by any further work you do.

    If you want to improve the appearance of the final export it would be best to ensure that you have calculated the rivers at the highest possible resolution (custom setting at about 10000, which takes about 20 minutes to run). It might also help if you increase the roughness of your FT terrain just a little to reduce the rather long straight sections I can see in the current export.

    That, however, is only my opinion :)

    I hope this has helped in some way.
  • jslaytonjslayton Moderator, ProFantasy Mapmaker
    There is a bug in the distributed versions of FT that's causing the vector rivers to not generate correctly in all cases. FT should be able to generate rivers as vectors that it stores in the FTW files and exports to the FCW files as well. It also has a nice multi-resolution system (I used the term "Importance" in FT) that only shows progressively larger rivers as you zoom out to keep the map relatively uncluttered. It's unfortunate that it's broken at the moment. OK, broken for the 5 years since the last release...
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    I wouldn't say broken, jslayton. More... 'under development', time permitting ;)

    TheGreyOwl:

    I've been torn a bit ragged today with one thing and another, but I've just suddenly remembered that when I first opened your file you did seem to have a river exclusion zone set up over the entire map, for some strange reason - most probably by accident. I just automatically switch all such things off before I start with rivers, so I didn't even think about it, but if you want to see the rivers you will have to get rid of the universal exclusion zone first.

    Sorry about that. I should really have remembered to say something sooner.

    I do hope you are managing to get it to work all right now?
  • Posted By: LoopysueI wouldn't say broken, jslayton. More... 'under development', time permitting ;)

    TheGreyOwl:

    I've been torn a bit ragged today with one thing and another, but I've just suddenly remembered that when I first opened your file you did seem to have a river exclusion zone set up over the entire map, for some strange reason - most probably by accident. I just automatically switch all such things off before I start with rivers, so I didn't even think about it, but if you want to see the rivers you will have to get rid of the universal exclusion zone first.

    Sorry about that. I should really have remembered to say something sooner.

    I do hope you are managing to get it to work all right now?
    That was definitely by accident since I don't know how to create river exclusion zones intentionally (it's my first week using FT3). Just for future reference, how can one tell that there's an exclusion zone? I went and removed it, but rivers still don't show up. However, they're working on other files, just not that particular one. I've also noticed that on the other files "Show River Overlays" seems to work backwards. When it's checked, the rivers don't show up, but when I uncheck it, they show up.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    That's... definitely... a bit strange, but I'm not the expert here ;-)

    Neither can I explain why not that particular file. If its the one you sent me, its not the file, but the fact that the river exclusion zone covers the entire world.

    I have never been able to tell if there is a river exclusion zone myself, but making sure there ISN'T one is easy enough.

    1. Got to the tools menu.

    2. On the Rivers submenu, right at the bottom of the list you will find the "remove river exclusion mask". Click that, and try again =.

    I'm really hoping that will at least let you add some rivers to your chosen world :)
  • I did "Remove River Exclusion Mask", and it made no difference. It still works on other files, but not that one.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    Hmmmn. I fear that you have completely exhausted my very limited understanding of the software.

    I have never tried this before, but if you click the next map button, then click the opposite button to go back again, maybe you can shake whatever it is out of the system and try again - same world, fresh map.

    The only disadvantage is that you will lose any editing you did to your saved file, but if you really want that particular map, and you also really want rivers on it, that may be the only work around - unless jslayton can think of a better idea?
  • Is there a way to manually put in a river? For example, if you want one in a very specific location?
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    I believe I read that you could make any kind of an overlay you liked, including stuff like clouds and so on, but it is some time since I read the manual, so I can't be sure.

    In my humble opinion, rivers are much easier to draw in CC3+, once the map has been exported, but then I use FT3 primarily as a coastline generator, since its about a thousand times faster than trying to dream something like that up on a piece of blank white paper.
  • I agree. I export pngs or fcw files from FT3, once I get the basic look, then import them into CC3/CC3Plus. Then I can add symbols, rivers, roads, etc.

    Besides the Tome, there are several discussions, and pointers to tutorials, around here on this on how to do the imports.
  • I know how to do the imports into CC3, but I was hoping to have them in FT3 so that if I export multiple maps and multiple zoom levels, the river would stay consistent throughout. Otherwise, I have to put it in manually at each zoom level in CC3 and hope to get it matched up. Or is there something I'm missing about how to do this better?

    I wonder if I could do it as a vector path in Photoshop or Illustrator and overlay that in CC3 somehow, so I can just scale it for the different zoom levels? Is it possible to do vector overlays like that?
  • I made a hemisphere map in FT3, exported it, imported into CC3 as a png. Traced it, exported the modified maps with borders, etc.

    Then made country maps from rectangular pngs from the hemisphere map. Imported that png into another CC3 map, put more detail in.

    Then towns, vollages, dungeons.

    So I have two hemispheres that show basics like oceans, continents, large island groups.

    Then maps of continents that show mountains, forests, major rivers.

    And so on down to village level.

    SInce I only use png files, I don't zoom them.

    One way would be to print to a pdf printer. You could zoom in that. I haven't tried it, so I don't know how well it would work.

    My Crestar site if you want to give it a look.
  • jslaytonjslayton Moderator, ProFantasy Mapmaker
    Posted By: TheGreyOwlIs there a way to manually put in a river? For example, if you want one in a very specific location?
    You can draw a "river" onto an image overlay. That image overlay will only appear on image exports, however. There is no way at this time to add a river that will participate with the existing vector river system that exports to CC3, sorry.
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