'Wow' would be the first reaction. This is a very artistic style -- kind of abstract, but definitely something you could picture on a tapestry or adorning the wall of the royal cartographer!
I would have to echo the WOW comment. This map is awesome. Just enough detail to make you study it, and enough minimalism to not be cluttered. Great Job!
Very nice map. The finished result look very nice.
You should be able to a lot of the changes directly in CC3, without needing Photoshop though. Then again, there is nothing wrong with using all the tools at your disposal to get the desired result. I could never get a hang of Photoshop myself. Wish it was as easy and intuitive to learn as CC3 (And no, that was not sarcasm)
I know CC3 has the capability to do everything I did with my map except possibly the brush strokes, but CC3's effects are way, way too slow to do my labeling and final comp with. Photoshop lets me see all adjustments in realtime, including layer effects, etc. By the time I got to my final CC3 renders, it was taking 15 seconds to refresh with effects turned on (and this is with a fast Core Duo and 4 gigs of RAM).
Yes, I concur, awesome map. I apologize in advance for the remainder of my posting.
My first complaint is why does everyone post jpegs of their masterpiece maps? Seeing all the maps that others can create makes my lack of artistic skill all the more poignant. But of course, this forum is here to inspire me to try harder. So my immediate desire is to download this map into CC3 and understand how it was put together. But alas, I have no fcw file to do so with. So why do so few post the fcw files? Does profantasy have a restriction against this?
Secondly, I'm put off by the pervasiveness of photoshop enhanced maps originally created in CC3. I understand the desire/need to use all the tools at ones disposal, but when those tools so radically alter the map being showcased it seems to detract from the focus of the Profantasy products forum. Perhaps I'm dead wrong here and this serves to encourage our hosts to produce a better product. But aside from appropriateness, maybe a laundry list of basic photoshop techniques used on map should be included with those that use them. Or even, dare I dream, some basic tutorials on the techniques used that I would otherwise never find in a million years. See my other rant.
My goal here isn't to make loydb feel bad because he hasn't done anything wrong. I'm just trying to stir things up to see if I'm just a nut or do others sympathize.
I'd like to say I like the CC3 version as well as the PS version. The awesome border seems easy to do in CC3 if you have the bitmap. Either of these are just awesome, and I'd like to see an annual style for these wonderful maps.
The base style for this is the Sarah Wroot annual. I'll be happy to send you the fcw file, but you'll need to have SS1 and the CSUAC symbols installed, plus the annual issue. Here's what it looks like in CC3.
First off great stuff Loybd. not my style but I do like the distinct feel of your terrain regions. Todwag, I do feel your pain regarding the lack of posted FCW's, but I can understand why many people don't post them. My original post to the forum included a few FCW's of my then best CC2 Pro maps, but then I realized folks might not want to download them without seeing them first. I now post images and figure if anyone really wants the source map they will email me for it. I myself rarely PS or GIMP my maps and have never felt the lack of good results without it. I am glad Loybd posted both the PS version and the original as it really shows that both are just as rich in detail. I'd like to encourage you to hammer at it, and dont be afraid of the missteps because with any art program worth its salt the learning curve is steep. Keep posting samples of your attempts and you will se lots of people are willing to help. And yes you can post FCW's. It might be helpful if you post more of your FCW's of things you need help with so people can see what you have done directly and suggest ways to do things.
Let's see if I can break down what was done in Photoshop (my working resolution is 5000 pix by 6000 pix, as an fyi):
1) When I got the base map into PS, I spent probably an hour playing with different artistic filters until I got a look I liked (FIlter->Brush Strokes->Angled Strokes with a very short stroke length). I don't think this could have been done in CC3, and even if it could, it would have quadrupled the time at a minimum for redraws.
2) Replace the border. I have been collecting stock imagery for 20+ years, I have a wide variety of Aridi sets, plus some old cartographic collections, from which to draw. The top and bottom banners, the dragons, and the border were edited in Photoshop and then dropped in their own layers. This could have easily been done in CC3 (other than the initial editing of the EPS files into bitmaps that I liked). I spent a lot of time playing with layer effects in PS until I was happy with them -- it would have been too slow in CC3.
3) Add titles. Photoshop wins this race no contest -- the Free Transform tool is incredibly powerful, and makes it easy to shape text exactly like I want it (the "Cadwyn" on top and the "Fungus Coast" label especially. I could real-time tweak the bevels and shadows and filter modes in PS until I was happy. This could probably all be done in CC3, it would just be slow.
4) Editing the bitmap for the scale bar. It's a standard CC3 symbol that I cut in half and flipped in PS. It could have probably been faked in CC3, but it took 5 minutes in PS.
5) If you look at the CC3 output map, you'll see that the rivers are green (because of the CC3 valley effect I wanted for them). Once in PS, I selected all of the rivers using the magic wand tool, expanded the selection by a couple of pixels, and then duped them onto their own layer. With them selected, I filled them with a light blue color, then added a black inner shadow, a dark blue outer glow, and a thin black inner stroke to give definition.
6) Once I had all the elements in place, I starting playing with hue and saturation on individual layers until I was happy with it all. Again, realtime WYSIWYG feedback makes this a chore for PS, though it could all be done in CC3 by re-importing the final bitmap from PS.
7) I did the final composite, then spent a couple of hours zoomed in close doing minor bitmap touchups to make sure my rivers didn't spill into the border of the land, etc.
So there really aren't that many 'leet Photoshop techniques going on -- I've been a PS user since 1993 when 2.5 shipped for Windows, I'm just used to it. The bitmap editing could be done with GIMP easily if you don't own PS or PS Elements (though for $99, why anyone would *not* buy it is beyond me). I love the Sarah Wroot style -- I've always used colored backdrops to delineate terrain, the Wroot templates are set up to facilitate this style really well. There's a ton of free or cheap clipart out there to do borders, etc, so I don't think there's anything here beyond the average CC3 user.
If you have any questions about how something was done, feel free to ask. This was my first CC3 overland map, I basically started by following the Sarah Wroot annual PDF, and went from there.
I appreciate your response loydb. This is everything I asked for. The basic CC3 technique is handy. The requirements are useful. The photoshop steps are perfect and I think a must when posting this kind of map. Now if everyone could do this we could build a great library of map building info and samples.
Regarding gregwr: I think it quite reasonable to post a ready to view jpeg and then use the attach file feature to add the fcw. Or perhaps even better, submit the fcw to the map library. Come to think about it, why are there so few (that is to say one) DD3 maps in the library?
At the moment, I'm trying to finish up some DD3 battle maps for my Fantasy Grounds session. But I will get back to my overland map and I'm sure I will make some "please help me" posts.
Lol. Good eye. If I'd known I was going to run a cartoon filter on the whole thing beforehand, I would have probably used more of them. You need to get off your butt, stop sleeping more than 3 hours a night, and do CC3 versions... Slacker.
This is by far one of the best CC3 maps I have ever seen! I love it! Loydb this is the flavor that is missing from my maps and possible if I find my own like you did here I could be up there on par with this map! Great stuff!
Loydb, Great work!!! I love this map. It is simple, but complex. Did you use Fractural terrains to get a basic map and open it in CC3? I know the question may sound odd, but I'm a newbee and I've only done work in Dioramas. I will be doing overland mapping. Thanks for the link to: CSUAC- http://www.gmsapprentice.com/,it seems to be a great resource Have a merry Christmas
I played with FT Pro some, but never really liked the exports. I just used the CC3 fractal landmass tool and kept hitting redraw until I had a shape I liked that was pretty close to what I was after.
The island at the bottom I wanted a specific shape (upside-down crescent), so I drew it using fractal lines.
Comments
This is what it looked like after exporting from CC3. Everything else was Photoshop.
You should be able to a lot of the changes directly in CC3, without needing Photoshop though. Then again, there is nothing wrong with using all the tools at your disposal to get the desired result. I could never get a hang of Photoshop myself. Wish it was as easy and intuitive to learn as CC3 (And no, that was not sarcasm)
Thanks!
I know CC3 has the capability to do everything I did with my map except possibly the brush strokes, but CC3's effects are way, way too slow to do my labeling and final comp with. Photoshop lets me see all adjustments in realtime, including layer effects, etc. By the time I got to my final CC3 renders, it was taking 15 seconds to refresh with effects turned on (and this is with a fast Core Duo and 4 gigs of RAM).
My first complaint is why does everyone post jpegs of their masterpiece maps? Seeing all the maps that others can create makes my lack of artistic skill all the more poignant. But of course, this forum is here to inspire me to try harder. So my immediate desire is to download this map into CC3 and understand how it was put together. But alas, I have no fcw file to do so with. So why do so few post the fcw files? Does profantasy have a restriction against this?
Secondly, I'm put off by the pervasiveness of photoshop enhanced maps originally created in CC3. I understand the desire/need to use all the tools at ones disposal, but when those tools so radically alter the map being showcased it seems to detract from the focus of the Profantasy products forum. Perhaps I'm dead wrong here and this serves to encourage our hosts to produce a better product. But aside from appropriateness, maybe a laundry list of basic photoshop techniques used on map should be included with those that use them. Or even, dare I dream, some basic tutorials on the techniques used that I would otherwise never find in a million years. See my other rant.
My goal here isn't to make loydb feel bad because he hasn't done anything wrong. I'm just trying to stir things up to see if I'm just a nut or do others sympathize.
Todwag, I do feel your pain regarding the lack of posted FCW's, but I can understand why many people don't post them. My original post to the forum included a few FCW's of my then best CC2 Pro maps, but then I realized folks might not want to download them without seeing them first. I now post images and figure if anyone really wants the source map they will email me for it. I myself rarely PS or GIMP my maps and have never felt the lack of good results without it. I am glad Loybd posted both the PS version and the original as it really shows that both are just as rich in detail.
I'd like to encourage you to hammer at it, and dont be afraid of the missteps because with any art program worth its salt the learning curve is steep. Keep posting samples of your attempts
and you will se lots of people are willing to help. And yes you can post FCW's. It might be helpful if you post more of your FCW's of things you need help with so people can see what you have done directly and suggest ways to do things.
http://www.blankenship.com/maps/cadwyn/cadwyn.fcw
Let's see if I can break down what was done in Photoshop (my working resolution is 5000 pix by 6000 pix, as an fyi):
1) When I got the base map into PS, I spent probably an hour playing with different artistic filters until I got a look I liked (FIlter->Brush Strokes->Angled Strokes with a very short stroke length). I don't think this could have been done in CC3, and even if it could, it would have quadrupled the time at a minimum for redraws.
2) Replace the border. I have been collecting stock imagery for 20+ years, I have a wide variety of Aridi sets, plus some old cartographic collections, from which to draw. The top and bottom banners, the dragons, and the border were edited in Photoshop and then dropped in their own layers. This could have easily been done in CC3 (other than the initial editing of the EPS files into bitmaps that I liked). I spent a lot of time playing with layer effects in PS until I was happy with them -- it would have been too slow in CC3.
3) Add titles. Photoshop wins this race no contest -- the Free Transform tool is incredibly powerful, and makes it easy to shape text exactly like I want it (the "Cadwyn" on top and the "Fungus Coast" label especially. I could real-time tweak the bevels and shadows and filter modes in PS until I was happy. This could probably all be done in CC3, it would just be slow.
4) Editing the bitmap for the scale bar. It's a standard CC3 symbol that I cut in half and flipped in PS. It could have probably been faked in CC3, but it took 5 minutes in PS.
5) If you look at the CC3 output map, you'll see that the rivers are green (because of the CC3 valley effect I wanted for them). Once in PS, I selected all of the rivers using the magic wand tool, expanded the selection by a couple of pixels, and then duped them onto their own layer. With them selected, I filled them with a light blue color, then added a black inner shadow, a dark blue outer glow, and a thin black inner stroke to give definition.
6) Once I had all the elements in place, I starting playing with hue and saturation on individual layers until I was happy with it all. Again, realtime WYSIWYG feedback makes this a chore for PS, though it could all be done in CC3 by re-importing the final bitmap from PS.
7) I did the final composite, then spent a couple of hours zoomed in close doing minor bitmap touchups to make sure my rivers didn't spill into the border of the land, etc.
So there really aren't that many 'leet Photoshop techniques going on -- I've been a PS user since 1993 when 2.5 shipped for Windows, I'm just used to it. The bitmap editing could be done with GIMP easily if you don't own PS or PS Elements (though for $99, why anyone would *not* buy it is beyond me). I love the Sarah Wroot style -- I've always used colored backdrops to delineate terrain, the Wroot templates are set up to facilitate this style really well. There's a ton of free or cheap clipart out there to do borders, etc, so I don't think there's anything here beyond the average CC3 user.
If you have any questions about how something was done, feel free to ask. This was my first CC3 overland map, I basically started by following the Sarah Wroot annual PDF, and went from there.
Regarding gregwr: I think it quite reasonable to post a ready to view jpeg and then use the attach file feature to add the fcw. Or perhaps even better, submit the fcw to the map library. Come to think about it, why are there so few (that is to say one) DD3 maps in the library?
At the moment, I'm trying to finish up some DD3 battle maps for my Fantasy Grounds session. But I will get back to my overland map and I'm sure I will make some "please help me" posts.
loyd
where could i find the good symbols plz?
Symbol Set 1 has most of them, you can buy it straight from Profantasy.
The rest are CSUAC symbols, that are available for free at http://www.gmsapprentice.com/
edit: You'll also need the 2007 Annual Sarah Wroot issue from Profantasy.
Great work!!! I love this map. It is simple, but complex. Did you use Fractural terrains to get a basic map and open it in CC3? I know the question may sound odd, but I'm a newbee and I've only done work in Dioramas. I will be doing overland mapping. Thanks for the link to: CSUAC- http://www.gmsapprentice.com/,it seems to be a great resource
Have a merry Christmas
I played with FT Pro some, but never really liked the exports. I just used the CC3 fractal landmass tool and kept hitting redraw until I had a shape I liked that was pretty close to what I was after.
The island at the bottom I wanted a specific shape (upside-down crescent), so I drew it using fractal lines.