Using Symbols from Different Styles in CC3+

Can you tell me when you will be able to fix the problem with symbols from different styles having the same name?
Part of the appeal for this program is the ability to mix different styles for cool effects and to meet unique needs.
I am still experiencing problems with different symbols having the same name though in CC3+.
Recently, I wanted to use the rock version of the Monolith from the CC3 style instead of the Strait Monolith from the Mike Schley style.
This fit better into the part of the world that I am working on.
Unfortunately, when I tried to select it, it would only give me the one from the Mike Schley style.
I am using the one from the Mike Schley style for now, but I am wondering when this might get fixed.

Thanks,

Charles W. Robinson

Comments

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited July 2015
    The use of the name of the symbol as an identifier is integrated pretty deeply into the program, and unlikely to be changed anytime soon. This is why ProFantasy for most styles add a style-specific prefix to their symbol names, but I see this wasn't done for the Schely style.

    You can easily work around this though. After placing all the Schley-style monliths you need in the map, open the Symbol Manager from the Symbols menu, find the monolith symbol in the list, and rename it (this won't affect the symbols currently in the map). After doing this, you can now place the CC3 style monolith. If you later need to place more Schley-style monoliths, instead of getting the original-named one from the structures catalog, instead hit the 'Symbols in Map' button and use your renamed version from there instead.

    This technique can be used with any symbol. If you don't want the Schley-style version of a symbol at all, you can also just delete it in the symbol manager instead of renaming it, but that will remove any instances in your map you might have already placed. Additionally, if you never placed the Schley-equivalent of a symbol, it won't be in the symbol manager at all, and you can just place the CC3 version straight away without doing any workarounds.
  • Thanks Monsen,

    I will have to look at this some more.

    I do hope though that Profantasy fixes this and makes it a policy to always use style-specific prefix's for their symbol names in the future.

    Sort of seems like a no-brainer.

    I am eagerly waiting for the annuals to be updated for CC3+.

    I hope that they do not have the same problem.
  • edited July 2015
    Monsen,

    When I want to use a Schley-style monolith, can I just change the name back?
    I have to think about what if scenarios where something might happen to the map.

    Thanks
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    Yes, you can (Remember to rename the CC3 version to something else first though), but I find it easier to just hit the 'Symbols in Map' button instead since this gives you access to use your renamed symbol directly instead of switching the names back and forth.
  • edited July 2015
    Monsen,

    Question: Can't Profantasy just do an update for the Schley-style and add the images from the CC3 files that do not work right but with a prefix? They could add it under an "other" category that you can just access through the symbol menu. This way, people don't have to do a work around. You can do the same thing the other way for symbols that don't work on the CC3-Style from Schley-style.

    Of course, any new styles need to make sure that they do not cause this kind of problem in the future.

    Will they be able to fix the old styles that are not setup this way?

    I am really looking forward to using Herwin Wielink's Fantasy Lands I & II symbols from Annual 6.

    There are several other styles that I want to utilize as well.

    Thanks,


    Charles W. Robinson
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    From a pure technical standpoint, yes, but it would mean a bunch of work.
    But remember that these styles are not really meant to be used together, they have a completely different drawing style, and does normally not fit well together. I am not privy to most internal ProFantasy discussions, but I would guess that they avoided using a prefix on the symbol names for clarity reasons, the prefix does not exaclty pretty up a symbol name or make them easier to find.

    But here is where some of the power of Campaign Cartographer comes in. Even if you plan to use things a bit different from what ProFantasy intended, you can. Because of the way symbols work, you can easily change the name of individual symbols in a map without risking to mess up the program itself or your ability to make future maps.
    If you need these overlapping symbols in several maps, just make a new symbol catalog yourself that contains the relevant symbols, and rename them in that symbol catalog once and for all, that saves you from renaming them in each individual map. You can even create a symbol catalog setting for that new symbol catalog, ensuring that it can be loaded easily from one of the symbol catalog buttons.
  • I have symbol sets I put together for say, villages in a certain nation, or 'typical overland map structures', throughout my maps. So when I make a village in Trillolara it has certain buildings and trees. When I draw a village in Dank Forest, much closer to the arctic regions, I load a different set of structures and trees.

    Makes it easier to map. I don't have to hunt for the symbol I want.
  • edited July 2015
    JimP & Monsen,

    That is awesome, I definitely need to figure out how to make my own custom symbol catalog.
    I do not know why Profantasy would think that people would not mix sets, no one style has enough symbols & bitmaps to cover everything and only a few styles have added symbols (Herwin Wielink's Fantasy Lands I & II).
    I have the same outlook as JimP, I want different buildings and such for my different cultures.
    After all, there is so much to cover.
    Kelleemah has 20 different human cultures represented, 7 demi-human cultures, 6 humanoid, and various other cultures.
    Even then, there are subcultures as well: Elven (Valley Elves, Wind Elves, Black Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, and Wild Elves).
    Each of these consist of a distinct subculture.
    Although, some can share symbols with the native cultures (Black Elves and Wild Elves have such a cultural bond with nearby cultures).

    Indeed, I will have several maps (Each requiring various styles).
    1. The detailed map that I am making now.
    2. A world/regional map.
    3. A political map.
    4. And, distinctive local maps (as would be made by that culture)

    As a further example, for my world/regional map, I have a favorite style picked out, but I do not like the "pine tree" fill, I will have to find a suitable one from another set. I also do not like the symbols for the cities and fortresses; I will have a to find a replacement for that as well.

    That means buying a lot of Profantasy products. LoL!

    The hardest thing to do (unique needs) is deciding what symbols to use for unique cultures.
    That is where I am running into some issues.
    The monolith is such an example.
    For Helgrind (Hells Gate) the primary residents are fire giants.
    I need a more organic monolith that marks the border of their lands.
    The one for CC3-style fits a lot better than the one from the Schley-style.
    I have mixed styles with great results for the Dwarf-Gates.
    Most of the symbols work (although I have to choose the alt-version to do so for some - that allows you to color it yourself)
    Unfortunately, a couple still do not work.

    Making my own world catalog would be awesome!
    Time to do some reading to figure out how to do this.

    Thanks!


    Charles W. Robinson
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited July 2015
    Posted By: CharlesWayneRobinsonI definitely need to figure out how to make my own custom symbol catalog.
    That is easy. From the new map wizard, you have symbol catalogs as an option.
    So, simply create a new symbol catalog from the wizard. Then, open up the symbol catalogs you wish to pick symbols from in the symbol catalog window, and click once on each symbol you wish to import into your catalog (clicking on a symbol in the symbol catalog window will import it's definition into your map, even if you never place it).
    When you are done, save the file, close cc3+ and rename the extencion of your new symbol catalog from fcw (map file) to fsc (symbol catalog file).
    You now have a symbol catalog containing the symbols you want. If you have names that collide, rename one of the symbols using the symbol manager as I mentioned earlier for your map.
    If you have the Tome of Ultimate Mapping, it goes into great detail on everything surrounding symbols and symbol catalogs.
  • Tome of Ultimate Mapping - that just screams - buy me!

    LoL!

    Thanks Monsen!


    Charles W. Robinson
  • 8 days later
  • Some of the border symbols in the Schley style are also coming up at CC3 style symbols instead.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    Fix should be the same, simply rename them in the Symbol Manager. Or if you are not using them in the map at all, delete them from the symbol manager.
  • That is what I figured.

    I just wanted to bring it up.

    I hope that this does not happen when they upgrade the annuals for CC3+ and when they release new updates.

    Thanks,


    Charles W. Robinson
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    The symbol names in the annuals and add-ons will stay exactly as they are in CC3 today. The names won't be changed when upgrading them to CC3+.
  • Posted By: Monsen
    Posted By: CharlesWayneRobinsonI definitely need to figure out how to make my own custom symbol catalog.
    That is easy. From the new map wizard, you have symbol catalogs as an option.
    So, simply create a new symbol catalog from the wizard. Then, open up the symbol catalogs you wish to pick symbols from in the symbol catalog window, and click once on each symbol you wish to import into your catalog (clicking on a symbol in the symbol catalog window will import it's definition into your map, even if you never place it).
    When you are done, save the file, close cc3+ and rename the extencion of your new symbol catalog from fcw (map file) to fsc (symbol catalog file).
    You now have a symbol catalog containing the symbols you want. If you have names that collide, rename one of the symbols using the symbol manager as I mentioned earlier for your map.
    If you have the Tome of Ultimate Mapping, it goes into great detail on everything surrounding symbols and symbol catalogs.
    Posted By: MonsenThe symbol names in the annuals and add-ons will stay exactly as they are in CC3 today. The names won't be changed when upgrading them to CC3+.




    Just a few questions please.

    Once I create my new catalog, will I be able to modify the catalog when new styles come out (to include the old annuals as they are updated for CC3+) or will I have to recreate the catalog each time.

    Where does CC3+ save the new symbol catalog when it is saved, or do I get to choose the location?


    Thank you very much for your help Monsen!


    Charles W. Robinson
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    Yes, you can edit the symbol catalog as often as you like
    It gets saved wherever you want to (But it is a good idea to keep it somewhere inside the symbols subdirectory)

    Note that when you create a new symbol catalog from the wizard, it insists that you first save it as a map file (.fcw) on initial creation. Just do a save as, and save it as a symbol catalog (.fsc) once you are done with it. Or alternatively, close down CC3 and rename the file from .fcw to .fcs, that works too. (A symbol catalog is basically just a map file with lots of symbol definitions in it, but the file format is the same)
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