Just started with CC3, having some issues...
Ciel
Traveler
Note: I'm splitting this into two parts... it's not THAT big, really, but I I kept getting an error message when trying to send it all as one post...
Hello all. I just recently decided to give CC3 a spin, and while I like it so far overall, I'm having some serious issues that I'm hoping someone here can help me with. I'll start with specific problems I've encountered, then move on to some general questions on features I just can't figure out. This post is going to be rather huge, but I figured it was better to just get all my questions out of the way at once.
First, and most seriously: terrain. Something REALLY weird is happening when I try to pick certain terrain types from the "Terrain Default" button. For the three Forest types - Decid, Forest Mixed, and Forest Pine - on my starter newbie map that I've been working on, it simply WILL NOT create them correctly. One of two things happens: one (much more common result), it creates a shadow on the ground in the shape I outlined, but no trees. This is accompanied by a series of three error boxes that pop up one after another: the first one says "Chk Data DAV has no pending DRQ SELREST". Naturally that's utter moonrunes to me at this point. The second two boxes say "Campaign Cartographer 3 cannot perform the command: VEGETATION." The second (rare) result is that it does draw trees in that shadow shape, but like one or two HUGE trees, and that's all. (By the way, while I'm on the subject: I know you can scale symbols as you add them by holding control and moving the mouse, but is there anyway to choose the size scale of terrain features like this?)
The REALLY weird part is that it's just my starter map. I created a second map, and I was able to place masses of forest just fine on it.
When I made that second map, I also noticed that instead of defaulting to, well, "Default", in the "Style" drop-down list for the Landmass and Default Terrain windows, it defaulted to "Overland CC3", which has many more options. Not sure why my original map defaulted to something different than my second map (and I didn't change it, cause I didn't even notice that drop-down menu till I made my second map to try and test the forest terrain out), but in any case: there were other terrain options - such as Farmland, Meadow, and Evil Lands - which are just as screwed up as the forests. Going back into my starter map, those terrain options (as well as some of the others) are just colorless, featureless blobs in the preview window, and when placed on the map, produce nothing but the shadows, as the forests did. And again, this is all ONLY on my starter map. In that second map, as with the forest-y terrain, they all work 100% fine and dandy.
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Hello all. I just recently decided to give CC3 a spin, and while I like it so far overall, I'm having some serious issues that I'm hoping someone here can help me with. I'll start with specific problems I've encountered, then move on to some general questions on features I just can't figure out. This post is going to be rather huge, but I figured it was better to just get all my questions out of the way at once.
First, and most seriously: terrain. Something REALLY weird is happening when I try to pick certain terrain types from the "Terrain Default" button. For the three Forest types - Decid, Forest Mixed, and Forest Pine - on my starter newbie map that I've been working on, it simply WILL NOT create them correctly. One of two things happens: one (much more common result), it creates a shadow on the ground in the shape I outlined, but no trees. This is accompanied by a series of three error boxes that pop up one after another: the first one says "Chk Data DAV has no pending DRQ SELREST". Naturally that's utter moonrunes to me at this point. The second two boxes say "Campaign Cartographer 3 cannot perform the command: VEGETATION." The second (rare) result is that it does draw trees in that shadow shape, but like one or two HUGE trees, and that's all. (By the way, while I'm on the subject: I know you can scale symbols as you add them by holding control and moving the mouse, but is there anyway to choose the size scale of terrain features like this?)
The REALLY weird part is that it's just my starter map. I created a second map, and I was able to place masses of forest just fine on it.
When I made that second map, I also noticed that instead of defaulting to, well, "Default", in the "Style" drop-down list for the Landmass and Default Terrain windows, it defaulted to "Overland CC3", which has many more options. Not sure why my original map defaulted to something different than my second map (and I didn't change it, cause I didn't even notice that drop-down menu till I made my second map to try and test the forest terrain out), but in any case: there were other terrain options - such as Farmland, Meadow, and Evil Lands - which are just as screwed up as the forests. Going back into my starter map, those terrain options (as well as some of the others) are just colorless, featureless blobs in the preview window, and when placed on the map, produce nothing but the shadows, as the forests did. And again, this is all ONLY on my starter map. In that second map, as with the forest-y terrain, they all work 100% fine and dandy.
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Comments
So, that's the really important stuff, since there's obviously something wrong there. Now onto some more general "how does this work" type questions:
1) Erasing. It seems like when you click on erase, your only options are to either grab and erase discrete entities on the map, or do draw a box and delete everything within it. A) It seems very finicky to me when it comes to which of those two options it will do. Is there any way to force it to use either the object grabbing or box-drawing?
2) Sheets and layers. I've gotten a good grasp of how sheets and effects work (and I can see how powerful they are), but I'm not so sure about layers. My understanding is that in many ways, CC3 sheets are more like Photoshop layers than CC3 layers are. What I'm wondering is what ARE layers for? What does one DO with them, exactly? Also, with sheets, is there any kind of limit to how many sheets one can create on a single map, or are there any negative consequences that crop up if one adds too many (i.e. the program slows down)?
3) Symbols. I've noticed the whole "top to bottom, left to right" thing when placing symbols; you want to go in a certain order, or it won't look right (placing a mounting just underneath another mountain will make the second one go in front of the first one and look nice, whereas placing it behind the other mounting will make it look like the second mountain fell from the sky and landed on the first one or something). So, my question is, is there ANY way to place things out of order? In other words: say I have a mountain range running north to south, and just to the north of the top of the range is a lake. Later on, I decide I'd really like to put just one more mountain at the northernmost tip of the range, between the existing mountains and the lake. But of course, it would have to slot in behind the existing northernmost mountains. So am I just sunk in that scenario, short of erasing the ENTIRE mountain range and re-doing it?
Phew... that's all for now, I think. Many thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read through this whole thing and offer any advice. ^^ And of course, any other CC3 tips and tricks that come to mind are appreciated!
1A) It works by detecting if your click was on an entity or not. If you clicked on an entity, it will select that entity. If you didn't click on an entity, it will start a "selection box". Note that to select an entity, you need to click on the edge of the entity, not inside it. For text, you need to click on the baseline.
1B) No. This is a CAD-style program, not a raster editor like photoshop, so those kinds of edits are not possible
1C) It deletes on any layer/sheet, not only the current. You can protect entities on a specific sheet by freezing the sheet, thus making them unselectable.
2) Layers are more like a way to group stuff. For example, you can add all the GM secret stuff to one layer, and then hide it all by hiding one layer. This applies even if the stuff is distributed over multiple sheets (Which you might need to do to get the appropriate effects)
3)
Symbols-->Sort Symbols in MapAlso, you can manually use "Send Behind"
I don't have a HUGE amount of work on that starter map, really... most of the time I put into it was just to try and learn the basics of the program by building a random island, haha. From that standpoint, I certainly don't mind starting over, and now that I have a better handle on things, I can probably make a much better map anyway. My main concern was figuring out what I should do (or avoid doing) to prevent this from happening again. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you're saying it could be because that first map got set to "Default" instead of "Overland CC3" for style. If that IS the cause, does that mean it's not a good idea to mix and match in the same map, even though it's just a drop-down list that can be accessed every time I open the Landmass or Terrain buttons? The reason I ask is because - while Overland CC3 has more options - there was ONE specific Landmass type that was only available in Default. Basically I just want to be able to access all of those options on one map, if it's possible.
Still, what you say makes sense, since when I created a second map in the Overland CC3 style, the problems promptly vanished. So I'll probably just make a new map and hope for the best.
A couple other questions I had that may have been missed in my previous post (understandable, since it was sort of a mess): (I answered my own question here by searching the forums, which I should have done first anyway =p)
Two: Is there any limit to the number of new sheets than can be added to a single map, either a hard limit or just a "you can do as many as you want, but more than X will cause problems" limit?
Thanks!
As for sheets, I am not sure.I don't think that many sheets in themselves will cause any issues (as long as you are reasonable. If you add hundreds of them, that might not work very well), but if you use a huge amount of effects, you might run into trouble as these are time-consuming. This should only be a problem when effects is turned on though. Normally you should do the editing with effects off.
EDIT: Somehow this part got chopped out of the post when I hit submit the first time... O_o I wanted to start by thanking Monsen again for answering my endless series of questions, haha. You've been a great help! Now onto my new questions:
Is there a way to select something you have already put down (a landmass, an ocean contour, a mass of pine forest from the "Default Terrain" button, or what have you) and change its shape without erasing the entire object and starting over? I assume one can take a chunk out of an object by using Erase with the box method, but I couldn't get it to work; even when I picked empty space as one corner of the box, then placed the opposite corner of the box over just part of the landmass, then clicked "Do It", the entire landmass got erased.
And assuming I can get just part of the object to be deleted, then what? How would I add new land/forest/whatever to what's left to close it up in a way that looks right? I tried it with the forest (which, for whatever reason, I could get the erase box to only get rid of parts of, and not the whole thing) and couldn't seem to find a way to fill in the empty space in a way that didn't leave it looking really weird next to the remaining section, like they didn't line up right.
Thanks again in advance for any assistance. ^^
So, we've determined that my previous problem (forests that wouldn't draw correctly) was related to switching between the "Default" and "Overland CC3" styles. Now, why the program even HAS a separate style called "Default" when "Overland CC3" really should always be the default anyway is beyond me. But, in any case, knowing that switching between these styles might have caused the problems, I have avoided doing so when creating maps (after abandoning my original map that had the problems, which I had fortunately not put too much time into).
So you can imagine I am quite annoyed to find the program switching back to the "Default" style on its own! I've had the map open for a while, and have added some landmass and stuff already (always using the "Overland CC3" style), and I go back to Landmass or Default Terrain, and suddenly it's back in the "Default" style! This doesn't cause the same problems I had before, but it does cause several of the Terrain choices in "Overland CC3" (once I go back to it) to become super blurry. Also, the "Meadow" texture sometimes has problems... I found that the actual bitmap files in the program folders are corrupt. Some of them, anyway; the "meadows_LO" and "meadows_VL" (these seem to be the low resolution versions of those bitmaps) are unusable. Normally, the Meadows Default Terrain in "Overland CC3" looks to the higher resolution bitmaps for that terrain, so no problem. But, whenever this crazy problem occurs with the style switching by itself, after I go back to "Overland CC3", the meadow terrain is apparently calling on one of the corrupted ones for some reason (producing white squares with red X's in them when I try to use it). These issues persist until I close and re-open the program.
The other issues has to do with the grid. I can put a grid up on the map with no problems (which I do while I'm working, cause it helps me keep track of mileage). You can also put grid numbers along the borders for reference, but these numbers disappear whenever I hit Redraw (which, as anyone who uses this program much knows, is pretty often).
If ANYone has any ideas about what's going on with either of these problems, or my questions in my previous post above, it'd be greatly appreciated. Also, can I somehow re-download those two corrupted meadow bitmaps? Seems like I should replace the corrupt ones with good ones if I can...
You cannot use erase to delete part of an object. CC3 is a CAD style program, not a raster image editor, and works on complete objects. What you can do however is to edit the object in question. If you bring up the same drawing tool you used to create the terrain in question, you will see that it lists an option E - Edit in the command line. Hit the "e" key, and it will ask you to pick a start node. Pick the starting position in the appropriate object, then click some points inside the polygon. Finally, end the command with a right click, and then confirm with a left click. This allows you to both remove and add to existing polygons made by drawing tools. Note that this does not work with the forest drawing tools, due to the trees being placed by a macro, and is not really part of the polygon.
Blurry textures:
This sometimes happen if CC3 pick the wrong resolution level to display. You can maually override this in "Display Speed Settings"
Meadow Texture:
Seems to be a bug here. Mine is corrupted as well. Just never noticed it before.
Grid:
The numbers dissappear because the map border is drawn on top of them. Simply enter the sheet options dialog
That edit feature has made my life MUCH easier, haha.
Changing the bitmap to fixed: very high did the trick with the blurry terrain, too. Not sure what to do about the corrupted meadow bitmaps, but since they are the low-res ones, I suppose it doesn't really matter if I never use them?
As for the grid disappearing, I really should have figured that one out on my own, since it's just sheet order. Dur. Thanks for pointing it out. ^^;
Ok, here's a question. There are other functions (such as Explode, Break, how to "create drawing tools", etc) that I really don't understand. I've tried simply clicking on some of them and using them, to see if that helps me figure out how they work; in some cases I've been able to figure things out, but in other cases (including the examples I gave above), it hasn't worked out. So what I'm wondering is - instead of me just posting questions about these things one at a time - are there any kind of comprehensive tutorials I should be looking up? I saw the basic "Overland Mapping" tutorial vids by Joseph Sweeney, and they certainly helped, but they don't go into ALL of these functions, of course.
Now, I don't really mind simply asking about these functions one at a time as they come up, but I thought I'd at least see if there are any other tutorials or other resources I should be looking into.
Thanks again for the help.
ProFantasy also sells a product, The Tome of Ultimate Mapping. It was written for CC2, so it doesn't cover the new stuff like sheet effects and raster artwork, but all the core concepts of CC are still the same.
http://www.profantasy.com/community/user_tutorials.asp
I hadn't actually seen the PDF manual, and it did help, definitely. I had already seen the tutorial vids, and they were quite helpful as well.
There were a couple of things that the manual didn't cover, though, that I could find. One was exploding: what exactly is it for, and how the heck does it work? I've seen (in these forums) references to exploding landmasses in preparation for making a close-in, detailed regional map based on a larger, zoomed out world map. All Explode seems to do as far as I can tell from trying to use it, is make an outline of whatever I "exploded". Clearly I'm missing something with this function, because right now, I really don't get anything about it, haha.
Also, one other thing... I've been having problems using Undo multiple times in a row when the actions you are trying to undo were taken with different functions.
I.e., if I, say, scale something to make it bigger, then I go and pick Default Landmass and make a new island, then I click undo, it will delete the island (as it should), but no matter how many times I hit undo, it won't get rid of my scaling. However, this isn't consistent: sometimes, it will undo multiple actions, and sometimes it wont. So is this just a glitch? If so, it means I have to be a lot more careful with saving and the actions I take; not having a proper undo could be dangerous. O_o
I can't replicate the Undo issue, so don't know what to do there. You were running the latest patch, right (currently update 8, CC3 V3.40)? Saving often is always a good idea though. I know some people here will encourage you to save the map under different file names each time to easier being able to go back in the "history". Not something I have bothered to do myself, but I can see the value in it.
It's perhaps what you experienced...
You get up to filename030, and realize that you liked filename005 better.
Just load filename005, and you are back at an earlier version. You still cannot undo, but you are at an earleir version with the changes you didn't like gone.
On the Undo mystery: it's definitely not the saving problem you described, as this has happened a number of times without me saving first. It appears to just be a glitch... Along the lines of what JimP said, the main thing I think I should to do get around this is just be careful with saving and with keeping backups, at least at critical points.
I have to admit, Explode has me sort of mystified still... haha. I'm not going to worry about it too much for now (since in addition to not understanding how it's used, I'm not sure why it would be used either), but I may try to get into it and figure it out sometime later.
For now, my main concern is taking my more or less finished world map, and doing some close-in, detailed regional maps. I figured I'd just zoom into the area I want to detail, and start adding stuff. It seems like saving as a "Selected Entities" file makes it open to that zoom level whenever you open the file, which is handy, and ultimately, for distribution to friends or those participating in RPGs I run, I'll just be saving as JPEGs (not like anyone I know has CC3 anyway), and I can just save at a high enough resolution to make the map legible when zoomed in.
I thought I remembered seeing a topic on here somewhere about tips on making regional maps from a world map, or maybe it was just a topic with a link to a tutorial on doing so, or something. But now I can't seem to find it. Anyone know of such a topic, or alternatively, know of any tips or tutorials regarding this subject?
And finally, regarding Default Terrain: many of these (such as Desert, Evil Lands, etc) are just "flat"; they simply make the ground look different from the regular landmass ground. But some (Meadow, Marsh, Farmland, etc) place little bits within the shape you specify when drawing the terrain (clumps of grass for Meadow, bushes and little ponds for Marshlands, etc). My question is: when using these terrain choices, it draws a polygon or circle or whatever I have selected, and at the edges of the shape, it's just cut-off in a way that looks really unnatural. If the shape happens to end in the middle of a clump of grass in Meadow (which happens frequently), then said clump of grass just ENDS at that point, as the ground suddenly gives way to the normal landmass ground, leaving you with what appears to be half a clump of grass. Any way around this?
my tutorial entrance page updated link: Apil 18, 2016
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Anyone have any thoughts on my other question, about the way the Meadow, Marsh, etc. terrains just cut off in a really unnatural looking way when you end the polygon?
And while I'm here, some more inquiries:
1) As per Jim's regional map tutorial, I outlined the area I wanted to zoom in on with a plain rectangle. It was transparent at first, and I thought I'd make it solid, just to make it easier to see. So I did so, and much to my surprise, all the shadows beneath the mass of pine forest that I had put down on that section of my map also became solid black, instead of transparent. Obviously, this is no good; a shadow should of course be transparent. It didn't matter what layer or sheet the rectangle was on. When I changed the drawing properties of it, the shadows changed too. Hell, when I just changed the general drawing properties for making polygons (without specifying a specific polygon or shape TO change), the shadows changed. Is this intentional? Is there no way to put down a rectangle or other shape and change its fill- or line-style properties without affecting such things as shadow polygons that are already on the map?
2) On my smaller map, I put in three rivers and a lake. When I select the Default River, and then hit "E" to edit rather than create a new one, no matter where on the map I click for the first node, it jumps into the lake. In other words, it won't let me edit the rivers, only the lake. Is there some other method (aside from the "Default Rivers" button, then typing E to edit) one must use specifically for editing rivers as opposed to lakes? Both are created using fractals, if that makes any difference (though obviously, the lake is a closed shape and the river a path).
3) Any tips for creating that awesome beach effect? (i.e., this crazy map by Avotas: http://www.avotasarts.com/Images/CampaignSettingAlyeenNumbers.jpg) Or the equally awesome, "water depth" effect? (i.e., that same map by Avotas, or also, this huge map, from the "Jhendor" site: http://www.jhendor.de/images/maps/knownworld_cc3.jpg) I took a shot at both effects by just creating new polygons between the Land and Sea sheets that roughly followed the shape of the actual landmasses, but I couldn't get them to look right. I'm still not sure how some of the tracing or attaching tools work, so I may be missing something there, or I may have been on the right track but just not precise enough in my drawing?
Thanks again for any help, and for being patient with my endless barrage of questions, haha
For how I did that: surface map color chart and template you will also need the bitmap fills linked on that page if you want to use the same entire methodology.
No idea how to do the beach. I'll guess its a sand looking bitmap fill, probably with a glow sheet effect, and the forests back just a bit to show the beach.
new link, April 18, 2016